The Accurate Reloading Forums
What is your 308 Win accuracy load with Varget or BLC-2
04 June 2009, 20:48
Mike_DettorreWhat is your 308 Win accuracy load with Varget or BLC-2
Using 168 grn match bullets...
and the first person who makes a post saying..."well, I use XYZ powder..."
Has to go to the chalk board and write...
"From now on, I will answer the f*cking question asked and no longer pontificate with my irrelevant opinion"

MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 05:58
510wellsquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
Using 168 grn match bullets...
and the first person who makes a post saying..."well, I use XYZ powder..."
Has to go to the chalk board and write...
"From now on, I will answer the f*cking question asked and no longer pontificate with my irrelevant opinion"
My sons long range (900 yards) load for his Remington 900P is
Brass is Federal
168 gr. Sierra #2200
Fed 210
43.3 gr. Varget
Light crimp, Meas. 2640 FPS
Hope this helps ;-)
Roi
DRSS member
Constant change is here to stay.
05 June 2009, 06:06
Mike_DettorreThanks...you guys are great...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 06:14
djpaintlesI've reloaded for a couple dozen 308's including a few extremely accurate ones like a TRG-42, LRS-2, Steyr HB, 700 HB's etc.. I've been through more kegs of Varget and 168gr Sierras than I care to think about. And since you've asked so nicely.....................................................................................................................(not)..........................................DJ
....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!..................
05 June 2009, 06:33
Mike_Dettorredj,
it is all fun hence the happy face...you don't want to share that is okay by me
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 06:36
MikeBurkeMike,
Bolt or gas gun, twist rate?
05 June 2009, 06:54
Mike_DettorreBolt...it's a kimber...don't know the twist rate
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 07:14
MikeBurkeLapua Brass
168 Grain SMK
Varget start at 43.5 grains
Winchester LR primers are every bit as good as 210 M's in my rifle
.015 from lands
Taking a little liberty, if the 175's will not shoot and you want to try something different than the 168's, Sierra has a new 155 MK out for the Palma Shooters. Same data as above start with 45.5 grains Varget.
05 June 2009, 07:45
Mike_Dettorrethanks
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 08:08
Bobby TomekMike-
While I don't use match bullets much in the .308 WCF, my current load is 43.8 grains of Varget under the Nosler 168 grain CC and using a Federal 210 primer.
In a Savage 10 FP LE-2, I seated it to 2.840 and loaded it as a single shot. I no longer have that rifle, but 3-shot, 200 yard groups always hovered around an inch -- sometimes less when I upheld my end of the bargain.

In a TC Encore with a 26" barrel, that very same load with the seating depth changed to 2.8225" generally groups in 0.55-0.60 for 3 shots at 100 yards -- about as good as a utility grade barrel like this (it's a factory TC tube) will do.
ALso, I'll add that while I do prep my brass, it does not get the full battery of treatment that match shooters routinely apply as my primary purposes are hunting and informal target shooting/plinking.
Bobby
Μολὼν λαβέ
The most important thing in life is not what we do but how and why we do it. - Nana Mouskouri
05 June 2009, 08:24
Mike_Dettorrethanks Bobby
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 09:46
Idaho Sharpshooter'scuze meeeee, but THE powder for the 308 for the last forty years has been 4895!!
Rich
Buff Killer
05 June 2009, 09:55
Mike_DettorreThat's real nice Rich except I don't use 4895...
I use BLC-2 and Varget, that is why I asked for loads with those powders.
Doesn't mean I don't think other powders are good but I don't use other powders
Now go to the chalk board and right 10 times...
"From now on, I will answer the f*cking question asked and no longer pontificate with my irrelevant opinion"

MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 11:19
djpaintlesquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
dj,
it is all fun hence the happy face...you don't want to share that is okay by me
Heck, I'm just wondering where you found enough Varget!

My local supplier sold out of 40 8lb kegs in 5 hrs! ..........................DJ
....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!..................
05 June 2009, 17:29
Mike_DettorreI bought 16 lbs about 8 months ago...let me see wasn't there an election about then...yep, I think there was...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 18:43
laduckkillerquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
and the first person who makes a post saying..."well, I use XYZ powder..."
Has to go to the chalk board and write...
"From now on, I will answer the f*cking question asked and no longer pontificate with my irrelevant opinion"
Thanks Mike - that made my day

05 June 2009, 19:04
djpaintlesquote:
Originally posted by Mike_Dettorre:
I bought 16 lbs about 8 months ago...let me see wasn't there an election about then...yep, I think there was...
I had more than 16lbs before the election and ran out, I shoot a lot and use varget in multiple calibers. I've bought 16 more since and am more than 1/2 the way through that. It's amazing how fast the stuff goes at 24,26,36 and 46grs at a time.
My hunting 308's like 46grs with 168's, great velocity and accuracy. If I was doing an accuracy rifle (though I've been using N-140 in those) I'd just shoot an Audette's ladder and see where the harmonic point in your barrel is with 168's and load from there..................................DJ
....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!..................
05 June 2009, 20:16
Mike_DettorreDJ,
I don't shoot that much...maybe go to the range once a month and go through 50-100 rounds...
So 16 lbs lasts me a long time...
MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
05 June 2009, 22:32
Macifejquote:
Originally posted by Idaho Sharpshooter:
'scuze meeeee, but THE powder for the 308 for the last forty years has been 4895!!
Rich
Buff Killer
That may be but ATK says USMIL 7.62 Sniper ammo is loaded with RL15 ...

06 June 2009, 00:39
Idaho SharpshooterI had Steve Kostanich of Chehalis, WA, build me a hunter class bench rest rifle in 1990. He says, start at 39gr of 4895, and work up 3-shot groups at 100yds 'til you get to 44gr and re do the best with a 5-shot group or two. I put a Leupold 36X scope on it and had three consecutive 5-shot groups at 100yds that measured in the "Ones". That is one-tenth of an inch-plus, but under two tenths.
You know that pbpbpbpbpbpbph! noise your kids make when they stick their tongue out and exhale? That is the sound I am replicating here! Stick a piece of chalk up each nostril, then run down to the sporting goods store and buy an 8lb caddy of H4894 or AA2495.
Rich
Buff Killer
06 June 2009, 00:41
Idaho SharpshooterMac,
those are fmj bullets, and accuracy in measured in moa, not tenths of an inch at 100 yds.
Rich
Buff Killer
06 June 2009, 00:44
MacifejDetails, details ...

06 June 2009, 00:48
Mike_DettorreRich,
I still don't think you understand my point...I ain't sayin that other powders may or may not be better...I am just asking about those two powders.
I am also not trying to "build the most accurate 308 in the world"...
I am trying to find the most accurate load given the powders I have to work with.
I always find it amusing that these concepts are difficult for AR members to understand.
Kinda like saying I am going to be in Boise, ID next week where can I get a great steak dinner in and somebody responding..."If you want a great steak dinner, let me teell you about this place in Dallas"

MikeLegistine actu quod scripsi?
Never under estimate the internet community's ability to reply to your post with their personal rant about their tangentially related, single occurrence issue.
What I have learned on AR, since 2001:
1. The proper answer to: Where is the best place in town to get a steak dinner? is…You should go to Mel's Diner and get the fried chicken.
2. Big game animals can tell the difference between .015 of an inch in diameter, 15 grains of bullet weight, and 150 fps.
3. There is a difference in the performance of two identical projectiles launched at the same velocity if they came from different cartridges.
4. While a double rifle is the perfect DGR, every 375HH bolt gun needs to be modified to carry at least 5 down.
5. While a floor plate and detachable box magazine both use a mechanical latch, only the floor plate latch is reliable. Disregard the fact that every modern military rifle uses a detachable box magazine.
6. The Remington 700 is unreliable regardless of the fact it is the basis of the USMC M40 sniper rifle for 40+ years with no changes to the receiver or extractor and is the choice of more military and law enforcement sniper units than any other rifle.
7. PF actions are not suitable for a DGR and it is irrelevant that the M1, M14, M16, & AK47 which were designed for hunting men that can shoot back are all PF actions.
8. 95 deg F in Africa is different than 95 deg F in TX or CA and that is why you must worry about ammunition temperature in Africa (even though most safaris take place in winter) but not in TX or in CA.
9. The size of a ding in a gun's finish doesn't matter, what matters is whether it’s a safe ding or not.
10. 1 in a row is a trend, 2 in a row is statistically significant, and 3 in a row is an irrefutable fact.
11. Never buy a WSM or RCM cartridge for a safari rifle or your go to rifle in the USA because if they lose your ammo you can't find replacement ammo but don't worry 280 Rem, 338-06, 35 Whelen, and all Weatherby cartridges abound in Africa and back country stores.
12. A well hit animal can run 75 yds. in the open and suddenly drop with no initial blood trail, but the one I shot from 200 yds. away that ran 10 yds. and disappeared into a thicket and was not found was lost because the bullet penciled thru. I am 100% certain of this even though I have no physical evidence.
13. A 300 Win Mag is a 500 yard elk cartridge but a 308 Win is not a 300 yard elk cartridge even though the same bullet is travelling at the same velocity at those respective distances.
06 June 2009, 02:49
Larry GibsonMike
Many years ago I tried BLC2 seven ways from Sunday with numerous bullets in the .308W including 168 MKs. I never was satisfied with it's performance with bullets heavier than 150 gr with which it works great. I have been shooting Varget in my match .308Ws since it came out and still use it. I used it with 168 MKs and then transitioned to the 175 gr MK for it's better long range performance.
In WW cases that are fire formed, neck sized and primed with WLRs I use 45.5 gr Varget under the 168 gr MK. Accuracy is 1/2 MOA out of my M70 Target rifle. Pressure as measured with a M43 Oehler is below the SAAMI MAP for the .308W.
Larry Gibson
06 June 2009, 04:08
djpaintlesquote:
Originally posted by Larry Gibson:
Mike
Many years ago I tried BLC2 seven ways from Sunday with numerous bullets in the .308W including 168 MKs. I never was satisfied with it's performance with bullets heavier than 150 gr with which it works great.
Larry Gibson
I've had the same experience with BLC2, I usually shoot 165's and heavier in 308's and have never had good results with BLC2. Of the two calibers IMHO Varget is by far the best. A lot of the High-Power guys call it "Camp Perry" powder. I could be wrong but I bet if you took a poll of current competitive HP shooters Varget would be far more popular than IMR-4895. 4895 does shoot well and you used to be able to buy it cheap which accounted for it's popularity. Varget is cleaner and when you can get it is a great 308 caliber powder and also is superb in a bunch of other stuff from 22-250 to 458's.
I picked up some of the 168gr Berger "Hunting" VLD's today and loaded some for 3 different rifles with Varget. Hopefully the wind will die down enough to test it out this weekend................................DJ
....Remember that this is all supposed to be for fun!..................
06 June 2009, 04:52
MikeBurke4895=M1A=Old timers
Mike you need to switch powders and send me the Varget, I will shoot it for you as a favor.
06 June 2009, 05:48
nosualc44.0gr Varget
Federal 210M
OAL is maxed for my magazine, nowhere near lands (YMMV)
First and only powder I ever used for the .308
edited to add: I use Lapua brass.
Beware the fury of an aroused democracy. -Ike
06 June 2009, 23:02
Doc224/375Mine is very close too nosualc's ; Varget 44.6 45.0 Fed 210 W/168 Sierra
BLC-2 45.5 46.0 IMR 4895 43.5 same components as above RWS Lapua W/ turned necks and .010 off the
lands . POI is extremely close Varget prints slightly higher out of mine ! .
