Best powder for 38spl snub nose

30 June 2002, 08:23

<Dyno>

What powder would give the best performance in a
38 spl. load for a 2 inch barrel? I normally use AA#5 for 38spl. loads ( 6 inch barrel ) but I think the 2 inch barrel could use a little faster powder . Any help will be greatly appreciated .

Thanks , Dyno

30 June 2002, 09:51

ricciardelli

I have been using the Sierra 125 grain JHC bullet on top of 10.5 grains of Blue Dot and CCI-550 primers. They have worked just fine.

HOWEVER...

I just loaded up around 1000 using the 125 grain Nosler JHP on top of 7.1 of Power Pistol with the CCI-550 primer. Fired a couple, they are controllable, but haven't done any extensive testing...but they do clock at 1,164 fps.

30 June 2002, 12:22

South40

Try Hodgdon's Titegroup or AA's Solo 1000. Both are fast, clean burning powders. I use 3.8 gr. of Titegroup with Hornaday 158 gr SWC's. If your .38 snubbie is for self-defense you should use factory ammo because of potential legal ramifications! 125 gr. Federal Nycads were designed for .38 snubbies and they work well in mine ---

30 June 2002, 12:41

<Dyno>

they do clock at 1,164 fps.[/QB][/QUOTE

ricciardelli ,
Is this out of a snubbie.

Thanks,Dyno

30 June 2002, 12:59

<Dyno>

quote:
Originally posted by South40:
Try Hodgdon's Titegroup or AA's Solo 1000. Both are fast, clean burning powders. I use 3.8 gr. of Titegroup with Hornaday 158 gr SWC's. If your .38 snubbie is for self-defense you should use factory ammo because of potential legal ramifications! 125 gr. Federal Nycads were designed for .38 snubbies and they work well in mine ---

South40,
Not for self-defence,just practice/fun.
What I am trying to do is figure out what powder works best for standard power loads in the 38spl snubbie. The solo 100 or tightgroup sounds like it
would work well in a snubbie.I had no idea the nyclad was made for a snubbie.

Thanks,Dyno

30 June 2002, 14:05

ricciardelli

That is out of a Ruger Security Six with a 2-3/4" barrel.

If the weather ever breaks up here, I will be running them through a Taurus with a 2-1/4" barrel.

01 July 2002, 03:02

<Dan in Wa>

10.5 grs. of Blue Dot in a .38 snubbie with a jacketed 125gr. bullet. What manual are you using?

01 July 2002, 06:58

ricciardelli

quote:
Originally posted by Dan in Wa:
10.5 grs. of Blue Dot in a .38 snubbie with a jacketed 125gr. bullet. What manual are you using?

What the hell difference does it make?

When you have loaded using 45 different powders, 13 different bullet weights, and 4 different primers (for a total of 2340 different combinations) for one particular caliber, you forget about manuals.

Part of reloading is investigation and experimentation, contrary to the popular thought that reloading must be done according to one of the "Seven Holy Bibles", and the "Great God SAAMI".

01 July 2002, 07:41

Vibe

quote:
Originally posted by ricciardelli:
Part of reloading is investigation and experimentation, contrary to the popular thought that reloading must be done according to one of the "Seven Holy Bibles", and the "Great God SAAMI".

I agree. If everyone only went strictly by what was in the manuals we wouldn't have ANY wildcats to play with.

01 July 2002, 08:30

Pecos41

quote:
Originally posted by Vibe:
If everyone only went strictly by what was in the manuals we wouldn't have ANY wildcats to play with.

Actually, Vibe, most successful wildcats WERE designed and based on combinations of cartridges in manuals...with very close attention to potential loads. And I can assure you most successful wildcatters pay very close attention to what Ricci flippantly dismisses as the "Great God SAAMI." Cartridges are NOT designed and developed by just tossing the rules out the window and merrily skipping off into Never Never Land where anything goes.

Some reloaders far exceed factory recommended maximum pressures and think they have accomplished something. Just as some car drivers like to run their engines up to or beyond redlined RPM each time before they shift. Both practices are dumb and only hasten the destruction of equipment. [Eek!]

I have a little more respect for my firearms than this.

Before I got old enough to have a little sense, I used to load my ammo up into the twilight zone. All I ever got to show for my trouble was some VERY loose and sloppy revolvers and in my rifles I got some ruined cases, headspace and a lot of gas and burning powder in the face.

The really knowledgable reloaders have, with damn good reason, very high respect for the "7 Holy Bibles" and the "Great God SAAMI." Experiment all you want. Certainly no one is saying every load must come out of the manuals. But I submit we ignore SAAMI at our peril. One enormous lot of trouble and expense has gone into developing these manuals and just because I've been loading for 45 years doesn't mean I know everything. Nor am I dumb enough to think I do or try to tell anyone I do. Observing recommend structural and stress limits is grade school common sense.

As an engineer, you above all people should know that there are structural laws and levels of stress that one does NOT exceed.

Me thinks Ricci has reloaded just enough to be dangerous. One day the "Great God SAAMI" will slap him down and teach him some manners.

So put me in the basket with Dan in Washington who dares to ask a simple question.

[ 06-30-2002, 23:31: Message edited by: Pecos45 ]

01 July 2002, 10:53

ricciardelli

"Me thinks Ricci has reloaded just enough to be dangerous."

Let me see...how do I define "enough"?

Cound it be that I have been reloading since 1962?

Could it be that I reload over 60 different calibers?

Could it be that I have NEVER, EVER has a firearm destroyed from one of my loads?

Or, could it be that every time another manual hits the market, the SAAMI spec (or the the company lawyers) decrease the "maximum" load?

The loads I used 40 years ago, even though beyond what is "accepted" today by "All The Great Gods", are still working fine today, as are the firearms, and as am I!

"The primary work of SAAMI is done by its Technical Committee in the setting of industry standards. Product standards for firearms and ammunition are developed by two Product Standards Task Forces, one for ammunition and one for firearms. Recommendations of the task forces are submitted for review by the entire Technical Committee. Other key areas of technical expertise and standardization include pressure measurement, muzzle loading, and working toward universal, internationally recognized standards by working with the Commission Internationale Permanente (CIP)."

In addition, "It is ANSI and SAAMI policy that every five years the standards be revised."

That means that SAAMI has changed the "standards" 8 times since I started reloading...

I would say it is fair to state that I am more stable than SAAMI...

You wanna go bashing me, go right ahead...but from some of the posts I have seen with your name attached, you have no justification!

02 July 2002, 01:11

<eldeguello>

In this debate here, I must side with ricciardelli. If one works up his/her loads with due care, noting the changes in performance made when a given variable is changed, one will get exceptional performance levels with complete safety. What Pecos45 asserts here is only applicable to those who start out with max loading data, from whatever source, and work up from there!! Or, those who "interpolate" loads for powders of "approximate" performance based on someone else's figures for other propellants. It is possible to get into trouble this way. But I'll venture that ricciardelli has discovered many things that those who stick strictly to data developed by someone else will never know, believe, or understand. We are fortunate that he is willing to share his info with us! This is more than most would do!! We should be thanking him, rather than trying to put him down!!

02 July 2002, 20:56

<Zeke>

My general purpose load for 38 Special is:
6.0gr of Power Pistol
140gr Oregon Trail Cast Flat Nose Bullet
Winchester WSP Primers
960fps from a 4" barrel

Seems a bit warm but it is very consistant and the accuracy is good.

ZM

03 July 2002, 01:56

Recono

quote:
Originally posted by Dyno:
[QBI had no idea the nyclad was made for a snubbie.[/QB]

The N38M (perhaps now P38M) load, sometimes called the "Chief" load, by Federal was made specially for snubbies. Softer lead. The N38N load is a +P, may be a little faster even in a 2" barrel, and has harder lead, probably because they figure that in a longer barrel it will be travelling a little faster. Nyclad loads are also made in +P .38 Spl 158gr (N38G, I think), and 9mm 124gr.

The N38M is the only Nyclad load made specially for the snubbies.

03 July 2002, 14:53

Chuck F

In 1972 I loaded some Speer 140 gr. hollow points for my 357 mag. using 13.0 gr. of SR4756 which was max per the 1970 Speer manual. This didn't seem to be excessive. The 1987 Speer manual lists 8.7 gr. of SR4756 for the 140 hollow point as max. OOPS. Maybe Ricciardelli isn't as far out in left field as some people think.

03 July 2002, 17:05

Vibe

Pecos

No offense intended bud. But that's not the point. Unless you can read
"10.5 grs. of Blue Dot in a .38 snubbie with a jacketed 125gr. bullet. What manual are you using?"
as somehow NOT implying that one should ONLY load STRICTLY by what is published. That being the case one could NOT combine info from parent cases and interpolate into a starting load for a wildcat. I think the only thing we disagree on is the interpretation of Dans post.