beam scale help

05 August 2011, 01:01

richyb

beam scale help

I have just started reloading and have an old beam scale to use. I put some powder in and then use the powder trickler to get my load up to what ever grains im goin after. The thing Im not sure about is if I have my load at zero and use my finger and push on the beam it will rise to the top and then act like I have too much powder in it and stay there and then always reads high. THere is a " fin" coming off the end of the beam that goes into a hole in the base, i have tried it with nothing ( takes a while for the beam to settle) and now i have vergtable oil in it so that it settles faster.

Am i doing something wrong? I ask because some of my loads have 50fps differance and im getting ticked that I spend so much time measuring out the precise ammount of powder and then get different readings...

05 August 2011, 01:13

Jim C. <><

It seems you do have an OLD oil damped scale. Actually, it is as accurate as any but that was the first dampening system and was soon replaced with the magnetic dampening we still use.

Clean your pivot bar and bearings to reduce resistance, make sure the ends of the pivot bar aren't rubbing against anything. Veggie oil is likely as good as any but replace/clean the oil every few months, otherwise dust will collect in it and that will also cause problems.

Without knowing what caliber & load you're shooting I can tell you that a 50 fps extreem spread usually isn't bad. You probably could count powder kernels and do no better.

05 August 2011, 02:17

richyb

hey thanks for the reply jim C. I got all my stuff fom a guy that reloaded in the 70's so its definitly old lol. I figured they would be alot closer in speed if measured out correctly but i guess not. I shot 3 today from my 30-06 and got 2668, 2615 and 2640 fps.

Dads 308 shot 2605 and 2550

05 August 2011, 05:03

Brice

Keep in mind that the benchrest guys do not weigh their charges. A half grain +/- is very unlikely to make any significant difference within 300-400 yards. If you like, figure your extreme velocity spread of 50 fps, calculate the difference in bullet time to the target and bullet drop during that time, and you'll see what I mean. At 1000 yds the difference will be important.

Most beginning handloaders make this mistake of thinking that getting their charges accurate within 1/10 of a grain is important, so you are not alone. It's Friday. Go have a beer. Subscribe to Precision Shooting, read Rifle Accuracy Facts by Harold Vaughn, and soon you'll be better informed than 90% of reloaders.

05 August 2011, 06:34

Jim C. <><

quote:
A half grain +/- is very unlikely to make any significant difference within 300-400 yards. If you like, figure your extreme velocity spread of 50 fps, calculate the difference in bullet time to the target and bullet drop during that time, and you'll see what I mean.

True. We all go through the delusion that "precision" reloading must surely include "precision" weighed powder charges. MOST of us grow to understand that a precision charge may vary +/- .2 gr. or more if the load is properly developed.

05 August 2011, 08:09

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by Jim C. <><:
It seems you do have an OLD oil damped scale. Actually, it is as accurate as any but that was the first dampening system and was soon replaced with the magnetic dampening we still use.

Clean your pivot bar and bearings to reduce resistance, make sure the ends of the pivot bar aren't rubbing against anything. Veggie oil is likely as good as any but replace/clean the oil every few months, otherwise dust will collect in it and that will also cause problems.

Without knowing what caliber & load you're shooting I can tell you that a 50 fps extreem spread usually isn't bad. You probably could count powder kernels and do no better.

What Jim says ain't wrong but I stopped using the oil in 1957 when my Redding was new. The oilis not needed and creates guey problems. Never use lube on the knife edge or bearings. When not in use store with the knife edge out of the bearings. ALWAYS keep covered . As elsewhere the tip of your finger can get the job done. Meaning of course ,if you develope the technique no damping vain is needed.

roger

06 August 2011, 04:47

SR4759

quote:
Am i doing something wrong?

Rich
I realize you may have budget constraints and that you want to make the best out of the old scale. However, save a few dollars along shop for bargains and eventually replace your scale with one that is magnetically dampened.
The RCBS/Ohaus 5-10 and 10-10 are very good.

06 August 2011, 05:33

SmokinJ

If you use an oil make sure it is a light oil. Don't put in it for example 40 weight oil or even worse something as thick as STP. It will greatly affect your readings.

I noticed the phenomena where you touch the powder in the pan and without removing any of the grains the weight changes. The only explanation is the powder absorbs some of your skin oils and moisture and makes it a tad heavier.

I had a new Ohaus from RCBS and I've gone back to my old oil dampened Redding because it seems to be more consistent and the zeroing system on it hold better and longer then the RCBS.

06 August 2011, 06:41

Ol` Joe

quote:
Originally posted by richyb:
I have just started reloading and have an old beam scale to use. I put some powder in and then use the powder trickler to get my load up to what ever grains im goin after. The thing Im not sure about is if I have my load at zero and use my finger and push on the beam it will rise to the top and then act like I have too much powder in it and stay there and then always reads high. THere is a " fin" coming off the end of the beam that goes into a hole in the base, i have tried it with nothing ( takes a while for the beam to settle) and now i have vergtable oil in it so that it settles faster.

Am i doing something wrong? I ask because some of my loads have 50fps differance and im getting ticked that I spend so much time measuring out the precise ammount of powder and then get different readings...

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06 August 2011, 08:37

bartsche

For the vast majority of my loading I only use the beam balance to set the dispenser. Fluid or magnetic damping is a waste when you can use dexterity and brain power.

roger

06 August 2011, 12:16

tasco 74

quote:
Originally posted by bartsche:
For the vast majority of my loading I only use the beam balance to set the dispenser. Fluid or magnetic damping is a waste when you can use dexterity and brain power. roger

yep.. me too..... once the powder measre is set i check it weight after every 50 reloads..... never had to change the powder measure yet in a reloading session..................

06 August 2011, 18:02

Hot Core

quote:
Originally posted by richyb:
I shot 3 today from my 30-06 and got 2668, 2615 and 2640 fps. ...Dads 308 shot 2605 and 2550

Once again, the Chronograph causes confusion. Not all Loads shoot velocities in the single digits. If that is your goal though, changing "any" component in the Cartridge might get you closer to single digits.

If however Accuracy is your intended goal, you might have the best luck by leaving the Chronograph at home, using the never improved upon Creighton Audette Load Development Method out at 300yds and it won't matter at all if it is single digits or not.

Best of luck to you.

09 August 2011, 04:05

PbNinja

Roger ; Synthetic oil will give little too no trouble regarding sludge effect of old oil . Kroil or Silikroil will work WONDERS.
. Best advice I can give is keeping a cover over scale when not in use , as with all reloading equipment and components a cover is keen !.

09 August 2011, 05:00

vapodog

I don't remember when I discovered that super precision weighing does not equate to super precision shooting......but it was a long time ago.

Now days I dump from a powder measure almost always.....using a beam scale to set it. One needs to get over the idea that extreme precision in weighing powder is beneficial.....it's just not worth the time IMO!.....this is not to say that +/- 1.0 grain is acceptable.....but +/- 1/4th grain is fine for me!

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09 August 2011, 05:34

Jerry Eden

Rich, at times I have the same problem with a magnetic dampened scale. While it may be true, as others have said, that 50fps spread is no big deal, I personally look for snd get lower spreads than that, in rifles. You're doing the right things to develope a good reloading practice which is part of the hobby. I started loading on an old Redding oil dampened scale, and had many one hole groups and extreme spreads below 10fps. Keep playing with your components, and you'll come up with something your rifle likes.

Jerry

09 August 2011, 08:39

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by PbNinja:
Roger ; Synthetic oil will give little too no trouble regarding sludge effect of old oil . Kroil or Silikroil will work WONDERS.
. Best advice I can give is keeping a cover over scale when not in use , as with all reloading equipment and components a cover is keen !.

I truly believe what you say. I just don't see the need.

roger

14 August 2011, 03:57

SR4759

Anyone with an expectation that oil dampening is more sensitive is does not understand magnetic dampening. The vane of a magnetically dampened scale is not magnetic.....

14 August 2011, 05:58

bartsche

Some problems with damping vanes is lint or crap in the air gap or the vane gets tweeked and rubs. When using a beam balance it isn't necessary for the beam to come to rest as you use it; handy? maybe but not a requisite.

roger

14 August 2011, 07:11

SR4759

Bart
They are a requisite to me. A good scale will oscillate a while unless you slow it with your fingers. That is was too slow and tedious.

As far as lint or rubbing goes, anyone that pays attention to the scale would spot that in a second.

14 August 2011, 21:14

bartsche

That's why I brought into play dexterity, brain power and the finger.No double meaning intended.

Perhaps it depends on what you can handle best and get use to.Enjoy your damping.

roger

14 August 2011, 21:51

SR4759

quote:
Originally posted by bartsche:
That's why I brought into play dexterity, brain power and the finger.No double meaning intended.
Perhaps it depends on what you can handle best and get use to.Enjoy your damping. roger

Now we get to the 3rd and most advanced form of dampening. That would be "digital" dampening.

15 August 2011, 04:21

Alberta Canuck

One of the common problems with beam scales is letting either the knife edge or the "V" in which it bears get dirty. It pays to clean them both regularly ...say for instance, each time just before you begin a loading session. An old clean T-shirt is fine for cleaning the knife edge, and a camera lens brush which lets you squeeze air through it is great for cleaning the V.

As to damping, I never bothered. I found soon enough that if the beam oscillates the same amount to each side of the zero reading that it is actually at the weight the center of the scale readout will end up with when the oscillation ends. So, I would check to see if that was the case (the oscillations being even) and didn't even wait for them to stop.

Pour the powder into the pan, check the oscillations, remove the pan if even, and dump the powder in the case.

Greatly speeds up the process and is just as accurate.

15 August 2011, 08:36

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
One of the common problems with beam scales is letting either the knife edge or the "V" in which it bears get dirty. It pays to clean them both regularly ...say for instance, each time just before you begin a loading session. An old clean T-shirt is fine for cleaning the knife edge, and a camera lense brush which lets you squeeze air through it is great for clening the V.

As to damping, I never bothered. I found soon enough that if the beam oscillates the same amount to each side of the zero reading that it is actually at the weight the center of the scale readout will end up with when the oscillation ends. So, I would check to see if that was the case (the oscillaions being even) and didn't even wait for them to stop.

Pour the powder into the pan, check the ocillations, remove the pan if even, and dump the powder in the case.

Greatly speeds up the process and is just as accurate.

Yes!! Just like they taught us in Chemistry class about 60 yrs. ago

roger