This is why I won't use X Bullets again. The one on the left went through a Zebras Heart at 100 yards, completely penitrating it, and then went 50 more yards into the knee of another Zebra.

The one on the right went into a Warthog at about 75 yards about halfway back and thru the Heart, stopping at the off shoulder.

Both are from my 9.3 x 74R.

What was the impact velocity?

never impressed me much either give me a good nos. partition anyday.

If I had that kind of experience with them I would'nt use them any more either!! I have taken a few animals with them and only recovered maybe half a dozen bullets. The recovered bullets were all opened up very prettily except for one. That one had shed it's petals on a stern shot on a kudu.
Wish I could say what made them perform so poorly. I may have to reevaluate my use of them in the future! Thanks for the photo's

Gator 1; Do you know the manufacture date on you box of X's. There were some problems with early manufacture. Much has been improved in the last 8 to 10 years. I realize that it is highly unlikely that you have bullets older than this, but, strange things can happen. -memtb

Gator1,

Not trying to defend Barnes, or insult you, but you chose an incompatable combination.

A very hard (presuming 286 grain) bullet, for lung shots at thin skinned game, at very low initial velocity, equals bullet failure to expand.

At 2300 FPS(if you are even getting that) a very soft 9.3 bullet like a 232 Norma Orynx, a Speer Hot Core 270 grain or any weight of Hawk bullet would have worked fine.

Please leave the controlled expansion bullets for thick skinned game, high velocity rounds or shoot for bone (ie shoulder shot).

The failures you experienced were not the manufacturers fault, but rather the "loose nut behind the triggers" fault.

Regards,

Bob

Shadow - A deer is thin skinned. Both the Zebra and Warthog are very thick-skinned animals. If you have ever shot one and skinned it you would understand these animals are built and are very dense.

If you were shooting solids, I would say this is a normal occurrence. However, for a controlled expansion bullet, this is very poor terminal performance.

Velocity was not the problem. There is only about 100 to 200 fps difference between a 9.3X74 and a 375 H&H. In short, this has been a long documented problem with the X bullet. Sometimes they do not like to open unless you hit bone. There are other, more reliable controlled expansion bullets that do not have this reputation.

Sorry to disagree with your "loose nut statement", however, this is not the fault of the shooter, this is the failure of the bullet to perform as advertised.

Zero Drift,

Not to be contentious, but a Zebra and warthog are thin skinned compared to a buff, and yes I have shot all three.

Sorry to disagree but you do not need an X bullet or Nosler Partition or any other premimum bullet at an initial velocity of 2300 FPS, for thin skinned non-dangerous game period.

Cup and core bullets work very well for that application. Wrong bullet, wrong application.

Please explain which contolled expansion 286 grain 9.3 bullet would work at an initial 2300 FPS and why would one need one????

By the way only the left bullet looks like it failed.....

I get 2611 FPS with my 375 H&H and 300 grain Barnes X, and 2826 with 235 Barnes XLC. A far cry from 100 to 200 FPS.

I use 286 grain Noslers Parts for Africa and 270 speers for the US in my 9.3x62 @ 2500 FPS, no problems so far.

Regards,

Bob

[ 12-28-2002, 00:55: Message edited by: Shadow ]

Gator: Take a look at the bullets recovered from African game right here at this forum. Along the pictures of the recovered bullets, there are accounts on hoe these bullets performed on game.

Scroll down this page to the "Home" page. The information is there somewhere.

Shadow - You are missing the point of the post - By Barnes on admission, the X bullet is supposed to be a controlled expansion bullet - not a solid. To quote them - "There's no separate jacket and no lead core. The bullet holds together for deep, dependable penetration---every time! A deep forward cavity causes the nose to peel back in four separate, razor-edged petals. Viewed head on, the appearance of these four petals gives the X-Bullet its name. The X-Bullet out-penetrates other hunting bullets, and has developed a reputation for delivering quick, one-shot kills on a wide variety of game."

I too would have rather selected the Nosler or a Woodleigh Weldcore for the application at hand. However, both the Zebra and warthog are of enough density that the bullet should have opened. Barnes makes the 9.3 caliber X bullet with the knowledge it will be fired from either a 9.3 X 62 or 9.3 X 74. It SHOULD have performed at the expected velocities that Gator1�s gun was capable of obtaining. It should have performed but did not. This is a bullet failure not a shooter failure.

I am sure in the future Gator1 will select a different bullet for plainsgame from his 9.3. As to what is considered thin skinned and what is not, I guess we leave that to interpretation....

Not to criticize, but didn't you test them for expantion before you shelled out the bucks to hunt on another continent. Maybe that's why I have no complaints for the X bullet, I knew what to expect before I shot them at a living animal. You are right on one thing, They should know people are going to use them at that velocity range and taylor them accordingly.

Mike,
You must have gotten an old or bad batch of Barnes X. Did you write to Randy\Coni Brooks? I'm sure they'd like to hear your tale.

The X should come out like this, if you can find it. Sometimes the petals break off after hitting big bones.

Where to start.

Memtb; I don't know when they were made. I bought 50 in 9.3, 50 in .308, and 50 in .338 after talking to Randy Brooks at the SCI Convention. This shoot took place two years ago if that makes a differance.

Shadow; I was also concerned about claims a bullet could be all things at all velocities but I was assured by Randy that they would work perfectly at any velocity. After all a .375 Holland with a muzzle velocity of 2500 only has a speed of 2100fps at 250 yds. The same as the 286 grn .366 at 100 yds. If that is too slow for one it is to slow for the other.

Zero Drift; You are correct about the long documented list of failure with X Bullets in Africa. Unfortunately, like most bad news, no one said anything until after. Than it was, 'why sure, happens all the time, anyone could of told you they don't always work."

Shadow; I think the one on the right worked also. My problem with them is that they don't work all of the time. The fact that only two out of 43 were recovered says alot about penitration but not much about expansion. I shot 23 Zebras with the 9.3 and 17 with the 300 Holland that day. With the 180s doing 2850 some of them should have expanded and stayed inside.
I also resent the 'nut behind the wheel 'crack', without even knowing you I would bet that I have shot at least a couple of more African animals than you have. As for picking the wrong bullets, I agree totally.

NBHunter; I didn't shell out anything to shoot over there. I did rely on Randy Brooks for information though.

Onefunzr2; I told Randy the story and showed him the two bullets. He said that they sometimes have a batch that doesn't perform as expected and offered me another box. When he figures out in advance which batch is won't perform and which will I might take him up on his offer.

I shot 40 Zebras the one day with the Xs and another 25 the next day using 210 Noslers. Interesting enough I recovered most of the Noslers. With them and the 308s all shots were neck shots. The Xs passed thru while the Noslers stayed against the bone in some cases.

A friend of mine has used Barnes Xs almost exclusively since the first came out.

He has shot about 100 plains animals on 4 African trips and also quite a few kanagaroos with them.

However, all his calibers have been high velocity calibers...257 Wby, 7mm STW and 300 Wby.

What he found was that the later versions in the mid weights with the "pencil point" were the best expanders and killers.

With the older heavy for caliber bullets such as the 115 grain in 257 and 160 grain in 7mm, his results showed slow expansion.

He also thinks the later heavy for caliber bullets are still not so good. These are the ones that have a rounder and shorter ogive than the pencil points.

On roos that were deliberately shot low in the chest he found Barnes X were better than GS 110 grain 264 bullets used in the 264 Winchester. However both bullets performed adequately although not as sudden as say a 308 130 grain Speer Hollow Point.

Mike

With the bullet bent like that, wouldn't that be caused by tumbelling in a too slow of twist rifle?

So, let's see here. You killed a Zebra, and caught the bullet in the heavy leg bone of another. It doesn't look pretty enough, so it failed. At what point when it was killing which animal did this bullet fail ? It didn't look as it should therefore it failed.
The second one failed how to penetrate and kill ?
What I call bullet failure is a surface blowup. The animal acts as though it hasn't been shot, or is lost, etc. I've seen the well thought of Hornady do this.
Or the bullet fails to open at all. I've seen Nosler Partitions do this.
Even the best of them aren't 100% perfect. Sometimes they don't work as they should. Sometimes they aren't even made to fit the rifle as they should. It happens. E

Gator1,

No offence was or is intended, it was meant as a pun, not as a question of your manhood.

Regards,

Bob

I have come to the same conclusion, different reason. Barnes bullets aren't for me either.
I like to varmint hunt. I bought some of the Barnes bullets for that endeavor. Not accurate at all.
So, I wrote to them and told them the particulars. They were very polite and sent me another box of their varmint bullets to try. They weren't any better.
I conclude, strictly from personal and limited experience, that I don't want to buy Barnes bullets.
T.D.

I've been telling everyone about the overblown Barnes bullets for a long time. They keep making excuses about bad batches, wrong impact velocities, not shooting the right type of game. Give me a f!@#ing break!! If you belive their propaganda, then go ahead and buy them,it's your money but sooner or later you'll learn that they are nothing but overhyped and overpriced pieces of trash!
By the way the Win. Failsafe's are in the same class as the X bullets!
Elk Country

[ 12-31-2002, 00:24: Message edited by: Elk Country ]

E, You have actually seen a Nosler Partition fail to open? Wow! Tell us about it. I've had
Barnes failures to talk about, but never a Partition. In fact you're the first person I have heard make such a comment. How in the world does
a Partition fail to open???

Well 2 of my hunting buddys yust barns X one of them in 375 H&H and neer max lodes whit 270 gr bullets, he stoped using them after he had to shoot a moose 5 times before it whent down. All shots where wel placed exept the last one whitch he placed in the neck. All bullets whent straigt thru newer tobe seen agen. But it semed like they havet opend at all. The other one who youses 270 win and max lodes, had the opesit problem they lost ther "thips" yust after hitting the animol.

I took to Barnes X bullets like a kid to candy when they came out, but don't use them anymore. I had a rough time getting the accuracy out of them.
The one exception to this is the Barnes X Muzzleloading sabot. It is the only bullet I will probably ever use for hunting. It is the only bullet where I have never been able to rip or demolish the sabot itself. When the sabot goes, so does the accuracy.

is what I think. Maybe you know how to post it.

1. I want complete penetration every time I can get it.
2. I have recovered very few barnes-x bullets
3. I have hit a lot of animals through the ribs at various distances. Every one died, and I recovered them within 50 yards or so and then ate them.
4. When I encounter bone on an off angle shot, the barnes-x never slows down, but keeps on punching through. I then eat the animal
5. I do a lot of testing, and I find that the barnes-x have very acceptable accuracy. I have photos (that I can send) of hitting an 8 inch steel plate every time at 1000 yards as well as a 12x12 inch steel LaRue.
6. We shot thousands of rounds this summer of both Hornady and Barnes-x bullets at Prairie dogs in 22-250 rifles. We all made hits at 300, 400, 500, and beyond regularly ... just as regularly as with the Hornady.
7. My Deja vu (340 from a necked up 8mm Rem Mag) shoot 225 grain and 210 grain Barnes-x's in a 6 inch bull at 600 yard all day. My 7mm Remington shoots 140 grain bullets in .2 to .3 inch at 100 and very well at 600.
8. When quartering a nilgai from the rear, the Barnes-x 225 grain from my Deja vu went through the hip, through the hip bone, through the paunch filled with a 100 pounds of wet grass, through the diaphragm, through the lungs, and stopped in front of the front shoulder at the skin at the neck. The bull nilgai dropped in its tracks. How many bullets have the capability of penetrating all that tissue and making it to the boiler room? The bullet expanded perfectly
9. I have never, never had an animal escape when shot with a Barnes-x. I did not recover the bullets because it went clear through. So ??? I did recover the one in the nilgai and one in a greater Kudu in Africa. The bullets expanded perfectly and weighed approx 87 percent of their original. I ate every animal.
10. I have shot 14 inches of targets taped together with the 225 grain, .340 and 140 grain, 7 mag. Both expanded perfectly, but the 225 penetrated the whole stack and into an 8x8 board. That's my kind of bullet.
11. A long, small diameter tube of destruction is better than a short, large bowl of destruction.
12. I shot an impala with the 225 grain. The impala did not know that he had been hit. I am sure the bullet went through that 6" wide chest without expanding. But who gives a shit. After running 40 yards, the impala dropped dead, and I ate it.
13. We shot 15 animals from impalas to greater kudu in Africa without a single lost animal. Several dropped dead in their tracks. The rest only ran about 40 yards. We ate them.
14. I have shot a lot of whitetail and one huge bodied whitetail in Alberta, Canada with the 140 grain Barnes-x. All have been eaten.
15. I have hundreds of results printed in Precision Shooting using Statistical Process Control Analysis with corresponding targets and data. The studies comprised several bullets, weights, powders, cases, primers, temperatures, humidity, seating depth, etc. The Barnes-x performed as well as the others. See the 1997 Precision Shooting Annual and several magazine articles by me.

Here is the bottom line: The Barnes-x bullet shoots plenty accurately for game. I do not want a bullet that will stop inside an animal when shot broadside through the ribs. If it does, it has failed because it will not get to the vitals on a quartering shot. The bullet that goes clear though still kills. The bullet that can penetrate bone to the vital kills also. The bullet that does not get to the vitals through bone does not kill and you have a wounded animal on your hands. Granted, the bullet that blows up in the lungs from a soft tissue shot thourgh the ribs kills well, but we are not always lucky enough to get a shot exactly broad side through the ribs into the lungs.

Pat, maybe you can paste this to the forum. I don't need a pseudonym. My name is Jacob Gottfredson, and I write for Precision Shooting, The Accurate Rifle, GUNS, and Safari magazines.

Jacob

Jacob,
Ahmen!! Thanks for saying this.. i would love to cut and paste to the "BT that have 40% of retained weight and don't exit a broadside whitetail are perfect" forums.

I too prefer a bigbore hole through the vitals than a crater on the ribs.

jeffe

Jacob,
I would like to get my hands on some of the studies you talked about in #15. Is there anyway to get a reprint of some of these articles. I am particularly interested in bullet performance on big game sized animals.

Thanks Jacob,

I was beginning to think that the 750 Barnes X bullets I have on hand needed to be melted down into house wiring for them to be useful.

Yes Virginia, there is a Santa Claus!

Hey now - finally a good use for Barnes X - house wiring. Going outside right now to melt some. Will let you know how it comes out.

Seriously, I love the old Barnes Origionals - hate the X version. Witnessed too many "dull" performances and only one example of where I thought they lived up to their hype.

Jacob,

Great post, I will watch for your byline. You sure do have a heck of an appetite.

John

I have tried them several times in .280 Rem, .300 H&H, .375 H&H and very limited use in a .30-06 and a 7mm-08. I got reasonable accuracy in a few, good enough for most hunting, but accuracy overall was dissapointing.

The biggest turn off for me was the FOULING. Shouldn't the first clue about the fouling be that Barnes sells its own very strong SOLVENT???

I also noted that my 270 and 300 grain .375" X's varied a LOT in weight and especially overall length. What the hell gives with that for a premium price??

I don't care for the inconsistency, the fouling and the high price. I'll stick to partitions and when I really need a tough premium I use Swift A-Frames. If your happy with X's, God Bless and have fun. Personally I think they are an over priced, barrel fouling, gimmick.

Sorry Randy and Connie.

FN in MT

Hi,

I have been reading the various comments concerning Barnes products.
I have hunted many different species - from various places across the world.
I have taken a lot of game with my 338 using either a 185 grain XLC or the 225 gr. X.
I have also used 22, 6mm, 270, 7mm, 30, 375 and 500 Nitro calibers to hunt - turkey, bison, elk, mule deer, whitetail, Cape Buffalo, leopard, elephant, waterbuck, impala, klipspringer, kudu, wharthog, baboon, hyena, bighorn sheep, and so on and so on.
I have never yet had a bullet fail me - and vary rarely have I had to shoot twice. On a trip to Africa in 1992 I took 62 head of game with 61 one shot kills. Needless to say - my professional hunter was more than impressed. I don't like to chase animals nor do I like to see them suffer.
To the gentleman making the comment of the X-Bullet is a gimmick - trust me we have no time for gimmicks nor the finances it takes to do gimmicks. When a product is designed and brought out to the public - you can bet it is a working viable product and one that we are very proud to offer.
Sure - there are incidences when a product may or may not perform to a person's satisfaction and we do take it personal when a problem arises.
There are so many variables when it comes to hunting and we apologize that we aren't perfect but we are darn sure trying to achieve that status.
The Triple Shock X-Bullet is a welcome addition to our line. We are excited to start shipping it to our customers and - no this is no gimmick either.
Thanks for talking about us guys!!! Good or Bad

Coni Brooks - Barnes Bullets

Good for you, Coni. I'm glad someone has the intestinal fortitude to come onto this forum, be up front about who they are, defend their product, and address a (real or perceived) problem.

I've lurked on this forum for quite some time, and never felt compelled to post until now. I think that the X bullets are probably the second most controversial bullet on this board (after Sierra MatchKings for hunting, of course ). I also think they are one of the best bullets available at doing what they are advertised to do: penetrate deeply and kill quickly.

Coni, Barnes bullets ARE for me, and a lot of other people who post here.

I am a bit intrigued by the new Triple-X design, but sincerely hope you don't abandon the blue coating on the XLCs. I use your coated bullets exclusively from 6mm to .416 diameters. I'd hate to start load development all over again for all of my rifles.

Any chance of coating 250 grain .338 or .358 X's in the future?

Norm

Been using Barnes X for years. EVERY white tail they hit (with five calibers) went into the freezer. Stopped looking for spent X bullets in dead deer, too hard to find, besides........don't eat 'em.

Coni,
Thanks for posting. When manufactures post, it shows that they have a passion for their products, and a eye on the market. We have the VVG boys, and Mike, but there seems to be a lack of interest from other companies when it comes to getting feedback. It has been years since I have used the X bullet (Except for the Muzzleloader), but I will try the triple shock bullets in all my big game rifles. I loved the performance of the X bullet, and if the accuracy is there, they will be used.

Coni thanks for posting... it is always nice to hear from those who care. Keep up the good work, I simply love your .257 100 X, and .277 130 X.

I have to admit - I've never got on a chat forum before and I'm afraid I'm going to have to quit my comments for a while simply because the show season is starting and I am going to be in the office a total of 6 days out of the next 45 days.
Shot Show, Safari Convention, Distributor and Dealer Shows are the thing to do this time of year.
It is fun reading your comments and thanks for making me feel welcome.
Yes I am a woman with 6 grandchildren and no - Randy is not a fag.
For all of your technical questions, I ask that you please give us a call - I simply just don't have the time to respond - and I apologize.
The reason for not having the Triple Shock X in bigger calibers is simply the smaller calibers is where the numbers are but we will certainly add some next year and I'm for sure going to push for the 338's. So don't lose hope.
No we will not be discontinuing any coated bullets.
Check our web site out for more information - it is pretty informative. We will have the information on the website about the Triple Shock X in the next few weeks.
Thanks again and I'll certainly respond whenever possible.

Coni Brooks

P.S. This response is also duplicated under Triple Shock X-Bullet three cannelures in case you are wondering where I am coming from on my comments.

--------------------
Coni Brooks

Great to see a manufacturer taking an interest in their product! I did'nt have great accuracy with 257 100 x, but will try your new bullets.
Sierra, Nosler etc shame on you! come and meet your critics!!!

Griff

My experience is limited, but the 4 whitetails I killed with the now-discontinued 125 grain .308 bullet all died quickly.

One small deer shot low in the chest didn't offer much tissue to force the bullet open, but there was a big hole on the opposite side.

One Texas heart-shot doe had the tip of her tail clipped by the bullet on entry yet that 125 ranged fully forward and longitudinally penetrated the heart. She didn't go far.

A buddy had a 140 grain .270 X penetrate a whitetail buck he shot on the run from left ham to right shoulder.

I'll definitely use X-bullets again.

Thanks to Mr. Gottfredson and Mrs. Brooks for joining the conversation and sharing their real identities.

BigIron

The Barnes bullets X bullets, with or without the coating, are excellent bullets if you want penetration and killing power, and excellent accuracy. I shoot Nosler, Barnes, North Fork, Swift A-Frame, Kodiak, Sierra and Hornady, Berger, and others, picking what my rifle really likes after extensive shooting, and considering the animals hunted. The post originator who complained about killing a Zebra and wounding another on the other side. If and when I go to Africa, that is exactly the kind of bullet I want. What if that Zebra had been a charging Lion, or Buffalo, would you be complaining about taking two animals out of commision. All I can say about that is, know what bullet you are shooting, the game being hunted and use common sense. I have a 7mm STW that will not accept anything except a 160 grain Barnes XLC bullet. The same is true of a .340 Wby and .338 Lapua, the former likes the 225 grain XLC and the later a 250 grain X. They will shoot them with pin point accuracy. With the .340 I have killed Elk, Moose and Deer, all one kills. In conclusion, if you don't shoot the Barnes X and XLC because of stories like the guy and the Zebra, you are missing out on a very good bullet, that may even be the best bullet for your rifle. I will say if you don't want penetration, don,t shoot the Barnes. Good shooting.

To put it simply. When I shoot a bear I demand an exit wound so if he runs I have plenty of blood. The Barns X and Swift A-frame are the two I trust for this. Yes I know they don't have to exit to kill the animal but hears why. when I first got into reloading I used a Speer hot core to shoot my first bear. At 200 yards the guide told me he saw me "smack him right on the shoulder" through the binoculars. He was so confident he started walking toward the spot saying he'd be piled up within ten feet. Well no bear and two drops of blood were all we found after that evening and the next morning. I now live by what he told me after that, "you need to put a hle straight out the other side in order to get good blood". Every bear I've shot since has gushed blood and the farthest one made it was 15 yards.

You use what you like, and I'll use what I like.