hornady brass

26 May 2010, 17:01

sksshooter

hornady brass

so i collected some .444 brass from myself and a friend for my single shot .444. i started preping the brass and went as far as tumbling, sized and deprimed it. i decided to load some up the other day and while i knew before hand that the brass was shorter than normal it never crossed my mind that it would be a problem. i set my die like the manual says for belling the mouth. put my first piece of brass in and raised the ram and nothing. then it occured to me damn this brass is short. so i screwed the die in another half turn tried again still didn't make contact. so i turned the die in tot he shell holder and still nothing. so i said well lets see if i can get a bullet started nope not happening. so now i have 30 pieces of brass and then another 20 that i haven't fired yet that i can't use. i decided i would try pulling the expander from the die and set it in the brass and give it a light tap with a rubber mallet. i was able to succesfully expand the mouth enough to start a bullet but theres no consistancy like that. so what can i do? just for more info im using rockchucker press, lee shell holder and lee die set. is there a longer expander plug that i can purchase? or am i just sol witht he hornady brass?

26 May 2010, 17:26

wildboar

The brass you collected is very likely from Leverevolution ammos. Brass is shorter than usual to allow the pointed bullet to keep within the allowed COL. I can't help you about the reloading equipment.

26 May 2010, 17:32

sksshooter

you are correct it is from the leverevolution and like i said i knew it was shorter due to the flext tip and i am reloading with the same bullets i just didn't anticipate the problem that i am having.

26 May 2010, 19:40

wasbeeman

I'm not that familar with straight walled ammo but don't you need to be screwing the thingy that bells the mouth in as well as or instead of the die???

26 May 2010, 19:56

sksshooter

well maybe thats my problem im using lee dies and the expander is not adjustable. maybe some of the other brand dies the depth of the expander is adjustable?

27 May 2010, 08:21

muck

I have some Hornady brass for a S&W 460 mag. Purchased factory loaded. First firing I had to use the rod included with the revolver to dislodge the brass from the chambers.
Thought this was a result of "warm" factory loads.
First reloads starting level. Still had to "rod" the brass from the chambers. The brass, 40 pieces, sit on the shelf now.
Purchased some starline brass. Works as one expects. Cases extract/eject as any other.
I am quite unhappy with The cases from Hornady.
I was considering trying some of their rifle brass. But I am not going now.

muck

27 May 2010, 09:06

guncurtis2

I know that on my .357 RCBS dies the expander is adjustable, so i would guess that RCBS .444 dies would be the same. Stinks to have to buy another set of dies though.

27 May 2010, 10:49

bisonhunter1

Never had any trouble with not being able to "bell" the case mouth enough to get a new bullet started. Course its not Hornady brass, rather R-P or Win that I use. Plus since this is a straight wall rifle case, it should be a 3 die set (mine is RCBS) that one is using to reload with. 1st die is used for resizing and decapping, 2nd die is used only to bell case mouth and the rod for that should have plenty of adjustment even for Hornady brass, I find it hard to imagine that that brass is short due to the leverlution(sp) ammo and still meet industry standards for over all brass case length, and the 3rd die is for seating and crimping of the bullet. I used some Lee gear early in my reloading career, found it was crap and have stuck with RCBS ever since.

27 May 2010, 20:08

Steve E.

I ran into the same problem once before and turned a bit off the bottom end of the Lee flaring die and all was good, you can still use it for longer brass too, just adjust it up till the right flare is achieved. Hope this helps.

Steve E......

28 May 2010, 04:52

sksshooter

bisonhunter the hornady brass is definatly shorter than standard. ive got the lee trimmer for the 444 and when i put the stud in to trim they were about 1/8" or so short. from what i understand this was done to keep the oal correct with the flex tip bullets.

steve that may well be what i do. since like you said you can still use it for full length brass afterwards.

28 May 2010, 08:11

3006va

If you have it you could use a 44mag flareing die.
Aaron

28 May 2010, 17:41

Hot Core

quote:
Originally posted by sksshooter:
well maybe thats my problem im using lee dies and the expander is not adjustable. maybe some of the other brand dies the depth of the expander is adjustable?

Yes, my 444Mar RCBS Die set has an Adjustable Expander.

I've seen this "Short Case" Leverevolution situation mentioned (maybe) 1-2 times before. I have a regular old Round Punch that I shortened so it can be used as an Expander by Tapping the Case Mouth with it. I fixed this Punch long before Leverevolution ammo was thought of when I was shooting Cast Bullets and needed a Case Mouth Expander.

It works well and does not mess up a Die.

Best of luck to you.

29 May 2010, 05:30

jetdrvr

I'm loading .458 Win in Hornady brass. Bought 150 new cases and 150 new Winchester cases and the Hornady is far superior in initial quality.

I'm using my PH's load of 74 grs. of Acc. 2230 behind a Hornady 500 DGS and I'm getting 2218 avg. out of a 22" barrel, with an sd of 4 and an ES of 11. Accuracy is excellent, too. 5" group of five at 100 yds with irons, NECG 2 moa fiber front and a peep rear. Can't beat that.

All cases weighed within a few grains of each other and lengths were just right. I'll buy more if I ever wear this stuff out.

30 May 2010, 21:31

Bill Cooley

quote:
Originally posted by sksshooter:
so i collected some .444 brass from myself and a friend for my single shot .444. i started preping the brass and went as far as tumbling, sized and deprimed it. i decided to load some up the other day and while i knew before hand that the brass was shorter than normal it never crossed my mind that it would be a problem. i set my die like the manual says for belling the mouth. put my first piece of brass in and raised the ram and nothing. then it occured to me damn this brass is short. so i screwed the die in another half turn tried again still didn't make contact. so i turned the die in tot he shell holder and still nothing. so i said well lets see if i can get a bullet started nope not happening. so now i have 30 pieces of brass and then another 20 that i haven't fired yet that i can't use. i decided i would try pulling the expander from the die and set it in the brass and give it a light tap with a rubber mallet. i was able to succesfully expand the mouth enough to start a bullet but theres no consistancy like that. so what can i do? just for more info im using rockchucker press, lee shell holder and lee die set. is there a longer expander plug that i can purchase? or am i just sol witht he hornady brass?

a good example of why I don't have aneything "LEE"
Bill

10 June 2010, 11:12

sksshooter

update
well a friend of mine has a set of 44mag dies so i decided to stop by with my brass and see if i could expand the case mouths with those so i could get these loaded up. that didn't seem to work. first thing i noticed was that the brass fit very tight in the shell holder like it would barely go in. the 44 cases slid in much easier. i lubed the cases and started to go into the die and it didn't go. i didn't put much pressure on it because i didn't want to have to by another set of 444 dies and him a new 44mag expander die. i geuss the next thing i will try is grinding down the end of my expander die. if that fails i will order an rcbs expander die.

10 June 2010, 11:28

sksshooter

or maybe i should stop being a tight ass and get some new full length brass and pitch these in the bin for a later date.

10 June 2010, 15:57

wasbeeman

Have you call Lee about it??

10 June 2010, 16:55

sksshooter

no i haven't called lee. i geuss i should try that and see if they offer a different expander plug for the die. thanks for that thought wasbeeman

11 June 2010, 08:09

Bill Cooley

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewP...productNumber=675227
Problem solved.
Bill

13 June 2010, 22:58

NEJack

quote:
Originally posted by sksshooter:
well maybe thats my problem im using lee dies and the expander is not adjustable. maybe some of the other brand dies the depth of the expander is adjustable?

Adjust how for the expander die screws into your press. Lower it down till you see the case mouth just barely being belled out.

Had to learn the hard way on this, but some Hornady brass seems harder to work with. I have some .454 cases that are great, and some .308 brass that would not size very well from Hornady.

14 June 2010, 17:08

sksshooter

quote:
Originally posted by NEJack:
quote:
Originally posted by sksshooter:
well maybe thats my problem im using lee dies and the expander is not adjustable. maybe some of the other brand dies the depth of the expander is adjustable?

Adjust how for the expander die screws into your press. Lower it down till you see the case mouth just barely being belled out.

Had to learn the hard way on this, but some Hornady brass seems harder to work with. I have some .454 cases that are great, and some .308 brass that would not size very well from Hornady.

jack my problem is that even with the expander die screwed all the way into the shell holder it doesn't contact the brass. i have lee 444 dies and the expander is not adjustable so you adjust it by how much the die is screwed into the press. with it touching the shell holder it still does not contact the brass due to the brass being short. i measured the brass the other day and iirc the trim to lenth was 2.215 and the brass was 2.015. i could be a little off on that as im not at home to check that but that seems like it is rite. i haven't had a chance to contact lee yet to see if they have an adjustable expander plug for the die yet but that is gonna be my next step if that doesn't work i think im going to turn the end of the die down and go from there.

15 June 2010, 07:14

NEJack

My bad, didn't read close enough the first time.

Lee expanders are a bit tricky, but I will say that Lee will work with you. A different die set should have more play in adjusting the expander, but I suspect that the Lee company will give you a solution.

17 June 2010, 00:22

enfieldspares

quote:
a good example of why I don't have aneything "LEE"
Bill

Apart from their excellent "factory crimp" dies the only thing I'd ever have by "Lee" always has "Enfield" immediately after it!

15 July 2010, 07:13

sksshooter

update
problem is solved. the lee expanding die is also a powder through die. the way it is made the expander plug slides up and down in the die. when the brass goes on the plug it pushes it all the way up agains the powder through busing at the top. and then as you pull the brass back down out of it it comes down a little and then stops. this is made so that it kinda pops the die a little so that all of the powder drops into the case. what i did to allow it to expand the shorter hornady brass was make a spacer to stop the expander plug from going up in the die. i was able to succesfully bell all of my 444 brass. i took a couple pics to kinda help show how it works.a 270wsm case actually fit perfect into the die so i cut one down to take up the slack between the expander and powder through bushing.