Re: Loose Bullets

09 August 2004, 14:49

Doc

Re: Loose Bullets

you have a PM.

09 August 2004, 14:44

Doc

Do you turn the necks? I had this happen to some 338 but only a couple. Brass was worn out, even though it had been resized a few times, I guess it weakened the brass somehow. Has this ever happened with virgin brass?

10 August 2004, 17:45

Ol` Joe

Make sure you`re not over crimping and slightly bulgeing the case behind the crimp, loosening the bullet. I`ve seen this in straight walled pistol cases although I`ve NO experiance with rifle cartridges of this design.

Ass Clown,

I`ve never loaded straight walled rifle cartridges but, with straight walled pistol I`ve always had the mouths go bad before the case body. I doubt I`ve trimmed a 44 Mag, 357, 45 acp/LC until they`ve been loaded more then 10-12Xs. I can honestly say I`ve never trimmed a ACP.

I`m not questioning whether you`re right or wrong, just that it suprises me they`d go in web. Is this more apparent with heavily tapered cases (or do the straight type (45-70, 458, ect) show the same thining?

10 August 2004, 17:53

Geronomo

It looks as though the brass may be just work hardened as JCN suggested, because when I load with new cases, there is no problem despite the crimp. There is no need to trim the cases because with these low pressure loads there is virtually no case lengthening measurable. It seems that the lip of the case just doesn't want to take that sharp curl into the cannelure and thus just loosens the case's hold on the bullet. I think I'll just put these cases aside for practice loads. Thanks for the responses

Geronimo

10 August 2004, 18:06

510wells

Quote:

It looks as though the brass may be just work hardened as JCN suggested, because when I load with new cases, there is no problem despite the crimp. There is no need to trim the cases because with these low pressure loads there is virtually no case lengthening measurable. It seems that the lip of the case just doesn't want to take that sharp curl into the cannelure and thus just loosens the case's hold on the bullet. I think I'll just put these cases aside for practice loads. Thanks for the responses

Geronimo

That's where Butch said the cases would have a problem. Have you tried annealing the case mouth(s)? Maybe worth a try...

Roi

11 August 2004, 00:41

<eldeguello>

TOO HEAVY a crimp will force the case mouth walls out away from the bullet. Try using a smaller expander button and no crimp at all. I think you will find this approach will put an adequate grip on the bullet. I did this with .450 Alaskan ammo for use in a Winchester M71's tubular magazine, and found that the bullets did not move in the slightest under recoil or while being cycled through the action, despite having no crimp at all!

11 August 2004, 06:21

ASS_CLOWN

Geronomo,

Very interesting comment,

Quote:

who's .458 jammed due to a too long cartridge (from bullet migration) just as a buff was coming to settle things after being shot a few times. Luckily a double tap from said crimped

very interesting indeed.

I have never seen a magazine rifle get longer cartridges due to recoil. I have seen this in double rifles, OH YES, but never a magazine rifle. Learn something everyday.

Thank you for sharing.

ASS_CLOWN

10 August 2004, 18:19

Geronomo

Maybe I'll try later. Getting ready for a tuskless and buff hunt in Zim (Zambezi Valley). Leaving on the 20th. I always use fresh brass for hunting with the double or once fired in the bolt guns. Thanks.

Geronimo

11 August 2004, 01:16

Hot Core

Quote:

Hot-Core, don't forget that since it's a straight wall case the resizing die doesn't technically have an expander, it only has holder for the decapping pin. Mostlikely the ball in his resizing die is going to be way undersized... it's supposed to be. The "expanding" on straight-walled cases is done in the second die. The same one that flares the mouth. Just a reminder.

Hey Kingfisher, Thank you. As I said in the beginning of my post, I'm not familiar with that Cartridge at all. So I had no idea it was "Straight Wall".

After reading the above posts since my last one I get the impression he isn't "Trimming" the Cases. That combined with an overly heavy crimp is probably the basic problem.

As we all know, each time the Case is shot, it expands over it's length to fill the chamber and as the Pressure decreases, the Case contracts just a bit. Then when the Case is Resized, the Die forces the Case to lengthen slightly as it "Reforms" the Casebody(reduces the diameter). And this does not always happen the exact same amount on each Case. Therefore the Case Length will vary slightly from Case to Case.

That variation can also create what he is seeing. I trim every case each time it is fired to maintain consistency. But, that is just me and since most folks don't "Crimp" cartridges, this problem doesn't show up too often.

And he mentioned there is no problem with new cases, so at least it won't affect his Hunt.

---

I don't ever remember having to "Anneal" any Straight Wall Cases I've ever had. But, as I said, I'm not familiar with this Cartridge at all.

Have any of you ever needed to Anneal a Straight Wall Case?

Thanks again Kingfisher!

11 August 2004, 12:58

Hot Core

Quote:

... I haven't been trimming because none of the cases have measured over 2.991", usually less. As I mentioned before, the new cases do just fine. On the crimping issue, the only calibers I crimp are the heavy recoiling DGR calibers. Those bullets WILL move when subjected to repeated recoil in the magazine or left barrel of a double. Just ask my PH Alister Fisher, who's .458 jammed due to a too long cartridge (from bullet migration) just as a buff was coming to settle things after being shot a few times. Luckily a double tap from said crimped .500NE dumped him at 30 paces.

Geronimo

Hey Geronomo or is it Geronimo. You have it one way on your Sign-In and one way in the thread!

How do I know it is you???

I hear you about the Crimp and totally understand your reason for wanting it on the Dangerous Game Rifle. No argument at all from me.

Once you get your Hunting Loads ready to go, maybe you will have a chance to figure out what is going on with the previously fired cases. If you do let us know.

---

Best of luck on the Hunt, but get that name thing figured out before airline "Check-In"!!!

I believe it was old Samuel Langhorne Clemens(Mark Twain) that said something similar to, "A man that can't spell a word more than one way has no imagination at all!"

11 August 2004, 14:38

Geronomo

It's Geronimo.
When I first registered on this site I mistyped my handle. Didn't feel like going through reregistering. I tried e-mailing Saeed to see if the correction could be made on his end... no response. It's pretty interesting that you were that observant. No one else has ever mentioned it. I feel it is important to spell the name as the original bearer of the name pronounced it.

Geronimo

10 August 2004, 19:32

510wells

Quote:

Maybe I'll try later. Getting ready for a tuskless and buff hunt in Zim (Zambezi Valley). Leaving on the 20th. I always use fresh brass for hunting with the double or once fired in the bolt guns. Thanks.

Geronimo

Best of luck on your hunt. Wish I was going also ;-)

Roi