Had a friend over for the holidays and pulled out the latest Lee loads manual for 357 magnum in 110gr jacketed. Loaded up about 250 using AA5 powder at about 11.4 grains.
Went to the range and shot a couple of these and they were big boomers. Went home and researched before continuing and found that Accurate no longer recommends using a max load of AA5 greater than 11grns.
I have found this same thing over and over again and think in the fuuture I will only RELY ON POWDER MANUFACTURER LOAD TABLES. Anyone of similar mind out there?

still decisding whether to shoot or pull the rest.....

My older (#1) Accurate loading guide lists 10.8 grs of AA5 as max for 110s in the .357. Might be a good idea to pull 'em and start over.

You loaded to a max load without working up to it????
You relied on one source for your load recipe????
Please go back and read one of the loading manual's "How to" sections before you hurt yourself or someone else.

Buy a new manual every time a new one comes out with updated data.

Wait, so you used 1 source for load data, loaded to max, and never checked any other sources?


I hate to say it, but you messed up! That's an awful good way to hurt yourself or someone else, Not to mention you broke the biggest rule's of hand loading....


http://loaddata.com/home/index...794&CFTOKEN=70624579

http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp


Use the resources we all have available to use. Load data books are reference material at best, not a cook book. As years go on, powder makers refine there processes, chemicals, and even flame retardant coatings, all of this can lead to them raising or lowering the min/max recommended charge for a given caliber and weight.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
You loaded to a max load without working up to it????
You relied on one source for your load recipe????
Please go back and read one of the loading manual's "How to" sections before you hurt yourself or someone else.

+1

quote:

quote:
Originally posted by Blacktailer:
You loaded to a max load without working up to it????
You relied on one source for your load recipe????
Please go back and read one of the loading manual's "How to" sections before you hurt yourself or someone else.


+1

+2

quote:

pulled out the latest Lee loads manual

There's your first problem, the others have already covered your second problem

quote:

Originally posted by rje:
Had a friend over for the holidays and pulled out the latest Lee loads manual for 357 magnum in 110gr jacketed. Loaded up about 250 using AA5 powder at about 11.4 grains.
Went to the range and shot a couple of these and they were big boomers. Went home and researched before continuing and found that Accurate no longer recommends using a max load of AA5 greater than 11grns.
I have found this same thing over and over again and think in the fuuture I will only RELY ON POWDER MANUFACTURER LOAD TABLES. Anyone of similar mind out there?

still decisding whether to shoot or pull the rest.....

I would pull the rest and never start out with a book max load.
Every reloading manual I've ever opened warned against this and usually tells you to start at or close to minimum charge shown and work up.
I've done it this way since I was 14 years old and am 50 now so 36 years of successfully folowing directions as laid out in the reloading manuals.
Try it, read all the warnings then proceed with caution.

I believe every entity that developes and writes loading data uses their own pressure measuring equipment to obtain data and therefore any manual is an absolute rule only to that piece of equipment and when a consumer uses this data it is merely a guideline of what pressure was measured in their labs and determined to operate within SAAMI pressure specs. Every time I load a cartridge I am using this data as a suggestion of what the end result should be. I get really frustrated when some jack-waggon re-loader claims that so-and-so's data is the absolute last word on charging a certain combination of components. I load "MY" ammo....period. It is my responsiblity to determine what is safe to shoot in MY guns...period.

Good post. But there is a fear of, and rightfully so, of high pressure loads. People look for guidance in reloading manuals but sometimes there is confusing information between manuals and Internet sites. If bullets were all the same, chambers were all the same, and bores were all the same, I wonder what the Internet sites and manuals would say? All any publisher can do is publish their results. Take them or leave them. As you pointed out, they’re just guidelines. But they’re well established guidelines to be sure.

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
You loaded to a max load without working up to it????

I've done this before. Most load manuals are fairly conservative, and if you know what you are doing it's not a problem. I have only once had pressure problems with a listed maximum load and that was with 700X in a 10mm.

Still, not something I would recommend anyone else do. And I only do it when I can check the load with several different manuals.

However uncommon, misprints and typos do and have occured.

quote:

still decisding whether to shoot or pull the rest.....

What did your gun tell you?

Did you see any pressure signs??

And why did you start with a max load and not work up??

all points made were very valid.
Thank you for your feedback.

Its all about learning and its all about experience and obeying tried and true process.

I don't unnderstand how using the Lee manual is a problem. I do however agree with the rest.

quote:

Originally posted by mdvjrp93:
I don't unnderstand how using the Lee manual is a problem. I do however agree with the rest.

I don't beleive using the Lee manual, per say, is a problem, as long as one does not rely on it exclusively. In other words, experienced reloaders have more than just one source for their load data.

quote:

Originally posted by 56hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
You loaded to a max load without working up to it????

I've done this before. Most load manuals are fairly conservative, and if you know what you are doing it's not a problem.

Grabbing a max load out of any book and using it as a starting point isn't too indictitive of knowing what you're doing. IMO

quote:

Originally posted by wasbeeman:

quote:

Originally posted by 56hawk:

quote:

Originally posted by Blacktailer:
You loaded to a max load without working up to it????

I've done this before. Most load manuals are fairly conservative, and if you know what you are doing it's not a problem.

Grabbing a max load out of any book and using it as a starting point isn't too indictitive of knowing what you're doing. IMO

I don't think it's any worse than buying any factory ammo. Especially +P or Buffalo Bore. None of that ammo was worked up in your gun.

good luck.

quote:

I don't think it's any worse than buying any factory ammo. Especially +P or Buffalo Bore. None of that ammo was worked up in your gun.

You would assume that a company that is selling ammo has tested it and NOT loading it above SAAMI max. For most +P there is also a SAAMI max.

When you pull a max load out of a book it would depend on what they used as the stopping point on the max side. Was it SAAMI max or as it something else.

quote:

Originally posted by ramrod340:

quote:

I don't think it's any worse than buying any factory ammo. Especially +P or Buffalo Bore. None of that ammo was worked up in your gun.

You would assume that a company that is selling ammo has tested it and NOT loading it above SAAMI max. For most +P there is also a SAAMI max.

When you pull a max load out of a book it would depend on what they used as the stopping point on the max side. Was it SAAMI max or as it something else.

Most load data I use has the pressure listed. For example I loaded up some 340 grain 500 S&W ammo last week with H110. Lyman listed 40 grains max at 45,000PSI, Hodgdon listed 43 grains max at 50,600PSI. The SAAMI pressure limit for the 500 is 60,000PSI. QuickLOAD predicted 49 grains to get to 60,000PSI. So I worked up from 41 to 47 without ever getting any signs of pressure. My 47 grain load chronographs the same as factory Hornady ammo by the way.

quote:

Originally posted by mdvjrp93:
I don't unnderstand how using the Lee manual is a problem. I do however agree with the rest.

As I replied to your PM, where you asked why I feel the way I do.

quote:

To put it nicely, it's a compilation of old (obsolete) data, culled from sources that have had their copy-write expire. LEE does NO testing of their own, but presents the data as their own tested work.

While I don't like the "one cartridge, one book" type of manuals (they use the same "public" data as LEE) at least they provide/credit the sources of their information.

Find the latest manuals put out by the makers of your favorite bullet and powder.

quote:

ramrod340
one of us

Posted 24 January 2012 01:00 Hide Post
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Blacktailer:
You loaded to a max load without working up to it????
You relied on one source for your load recipe????
Please go back and read one of the loading manual's "How to" sections before you hurt yourself or someone else.


+1

+2

I never look at one source to load by. I usually check at least 3 load data.. NEVER start max..

quote:

Most load data I use has the pressure listed. For example I loaded up some 340 grain 500 S&W ammo last week with H110

Some do some don't. I don't remember a Manual I own that references pressure. I have a couple that talk about stopping at a full case or .0005" head expansion. Most of the data on the powder sites does list a pressure.

In my opinion anytime you decide to start with the max (even if the pressure is listed) you put yourself at risk

About 95% of the powders I use come from Hodgdon's (to include IMR and Win). Their web data is pretty darn thorough with min/max data and pressures they measured. Never a problem.

OK...

Multiple Choice Question.

Whose data is the most reliable?

A. The powder company

B. The bullet company

A wants you to use (read: BUY) their powders. Is their data presented in the best light for all powders, without regard for the name on the label?

B wants you to use (read: BUY) there bullets.
Is their data presented in the best light for all bullets, without regard for the name on the box?

Then we have the devil in the details...
Are their pressure barrels identical in all dimensions? Are their reamers identical in all dimensions?

What about primers?

What about the brass capacity VS pressure curve?

Do what Boxhead suggests. Pick a widely used powder and work from minimum up until you have the velocity and accuracy you desire. Pressure signs will tell you when to stop and back up a grain or two.

I hope I've cleared this muddle up for you...

Rich