Speer Bullets

23 May 2006, 10:55

Alberta Canuck

I think you'll find that the Speer 150 gr. standard bullet will work just fine for deer in your 7.62x39. So will a standard Sierra 150, or a Hornady 150. There were trainloads of whitetails killed with .32-40's and similar cartridges, which shoved slightly heavier bullets at 400-600 fps or so LESS velocity. I personally wouldn't use your cartridge beyond about 100 yards, and would prefer even closer shots, but it will get the job done well at those ranges.

23 May 2006, 11:35

seafire/B17G

Well, a few of my fellow forum members posted a response... guys who I have a lot of respect for....

But as Alberta Canuck pointed out... a lot of deer have been taken with 32/40s at a lot less velocity... as Roger pointed out, that those velocities are lower than a 30/30... well maybe slower than current factory ammo, but what you are suggesting is a lot faster than 30/30 velocities with that bullet weight when using black powder...

I have also tested out penetration capabilities on the Speer 150 grain round nose and Spire Points at those velocities and even lower...

I have also hunted in Minnesota for 15 deer seasons, so I know what size the whitetails can get up north there ( I hunted between Hibbing and International Falls, and also between Aiken and McGregor)....

There isn't a place in Minnesota that I'd hesitate to take that load out hunting with... It will drop any deer you can find there, as long as you place the shot right.....

And Minnesota deer get a lot bigger than a lot of whitetail deer do elsewhere..... Let's not forget, the biggest Whitetail on record was shot in 1926 in Stearns County MN... It weighed 425 lbs, and it was shot with a Model 94 lever action rifle.. shown in the picture with the hunter posing with the deer... it didn't say what caliber it was, but it worked just fine evidently....

Make up your own mind.. load some up and go out in the woods and blast a few trees with it, and see how it penetrates.. don't take our word for it... if you don't think it will do the job, try something else....

I think you will find it does just fine tho!

cheers and good luck....
seafire

23 May 2006, 16:54

steve4102

quote:
Originally posted by Alberta Canuck:
I personally wouldn't use your cartridge beyond about 100 yards, and would prefer even closer shots, but it will get the job done well at those ranges.

I agree, I use this rifle when I am still hunting . It is light and easy to carry. I never take it with me if I am going to be in a stand that may require shots more than 100 yards.

Thanks

23 May 2006, 20:27

papaschmud

If it were me, I'd steer away from the 150's for 7.62X39. Hornady makes a 130 and Sierra makes a 125 that can be driven to better speeds by the 7.62. Both of these bullets will perform beter than the 150's at the modest speeds of the 7.62.

Gabe

23 May 2006, 21:29

nordrseta

At those speeds I'd try the Remington 150 gr roundnose bullet they make for the 30 WCF. They sell it in bulk for appreciably less than those sold by the bullet mfgs.

23 May 2006, 22:28

bartsche

Well some people are Quakers and some are Holy Rollers.Matter of personal preference on what we believe. I think the old saying is "You go to your church and I'll go to mine."

Personally when hunting larger game I like to use the MOST adequate easy to carry rifle that modern technology has to offer that doesn't kick the peediddle out of me. We all have to draw a line in the sand for ourselves somewhere and mine is about the energy level of the 30-30.

I have deviated from this in my life and killed a fair number of mule deer. The overall performance was not spectacular. Yes slow bullets penetrate but often do not do a lot of tissue damage.

Some folks used a mod 92 in 32-20 w/ lead bullets for deer and made a pretty good case for it. Me thinks, however that is the pendulum swinging to far in the wrong direction.

If you think you've got a winner in the 7.62 X 39 have a ball. I would like to humor myself and think I am higher on the firearms evolutionary ladder. But than cowboys are nice.

roger

24 May 2006, 02:01

Versifier

Sierra makes three bullets for the lower velocities of .30-30 class, a 170gr (#2010) I have not tried, a 150gr (#2000) that has put a lot of deer in the freezer, and an excellent 125gr HP (#2020) that will give you over 100yds effective range. I would not hesitate on a 150yd shot with the 125gr, as I have seen it perform well at that distance on numerous occasions. I wouldn't bother with the 170 in the 7.62x39 as it was designed for those who want to duplicate the .30-30 loads of yesteryear (and yes I know the factories still load it, that doesn't make it optimum for the longer ranges that the lighter bullets make possible). Some regular 125gr offerings may not be designed to expand at the lower velocities.

When in doubt, call or email the manufacturers. They will tell you what the working velocities are for each of their bullets. They want you to have a positive experience with their products, and may suggest possibilities you hadn't thought of.

24 May 2006, 03:00

steve4102

quote:
Originally posted by bartsche:
: Yes slow bullets penetrate but often do not do a lot of tissue damage.

Exactly! That is a big concern of mine as well. That is why I came here for some advice on bullet selection. The 7.62x39 is limited, I know, but, if I make a poor choice in bullet selection I will only make matters worse.

Thanks

24 May 2006, 03:08

steve4102

quote:
Originally posted by Versifier:
Sierra makes three bullets for the lower velocities of .30-30 class, a 170gr (#2010) I have not tried, a 150gr (#2000) that has put a lot of deer in the freezer, and an excellent 125gr HP (#2020) that will give you over 100yds effective range. I would not hesitate on a 150yd shot with the 125gr, as I have seen it perform well at that distance on numerous occasions. I wouldn't bother with the 170 in the 7.62x39 as it was designed for those who want to duplicate the .30-30 loads of yesteryear (and yes I know the factories still load it, that doesn't make it optimum for the longer ranges that the lighter bullets make possible). Some regular 125gr offerings may not be designed to expand at the lower velocities.

When in doubt, call or email the manufacturers. They will tell you what the working velocities are for each of their bullets. They want you to have a positive experience with their products, and may suggest possibilities you hadn't thought of.

I sent an email to Sierra about the use of their #2130 150gr Pro Hunter at these velocities. I was told that they should perform just fine. I also sent one to Speer about the 150gr RN, no reply.
I'll load up some #2000 and some #2020 loads and see if the accuracy is there.

Thanks

24 May 2006, 06:23

Hipster

quote:
Originally posted by seafire/B17G:
Well, a few of my fellow forum members posted a response... guys who I have a lot of respect for....

But as Alberta Canuck pointed out... a lot of deer have been taken with 32/40s at a lot less velocity... as Roger pointed out, that those velocities are lower than a 30/30... well maybe slower than current factory ammo, but what you are suggesting is a lot faster than 30/30 velocities with that bullet weight when using black powder...

I have also tested out penetration capabilities on the Speer 150 grain round nose and Spire Points at those velocities and even lower...

I have also hunted in Minnesota for 15 deer seasons, so I know what size the whitetails can get up north there ( I hunted between Hibbing and International Falls, and also between Aiken and McGregor)....

There isn't a place in Minnesota that I'd hesitate to take that load out hunting with... It will drop any deer you can find there, as long as you place the shot right.....

And Minnesota deer get a lot bigger than a lot of whitetail deer do elsewhere..... Let's not forget, the biggest Whitetail on record was shot in 1926 in Stearns County MN... It weighed 425 lbs, and it was shot with a Model 94 lever action rifle.. shown in the picture with the hunter posing with the deer... it didn't say what caliber it was, but it worked just fine evidently....

Make up your own mind.. load some up and go out in the woods and blast a few trees with it, and see how it penetrates.. don't take our word for it... if you don't think it will do the job, try something else....

I think you will find it does just fine tho!

cheers and good luck....
seafire

I remember reading the article quite a few years ago ( can't remember witch mag it was in though) But I do remember the caliber of that mod 94 it was 25-20. Proves a good hunter who knows his rifle and can put the bullets where they have to go can take a lot of game.

24 May 2006, 08:35

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by Hipster:
I remember reading the article quite a few years ago ( can't remember witch mag it was in though) But I do remember the caliber of that mod 94 it was 25-20. Proves a good hunter who knows his rifle and can put the bullets where they have to go can take a lot of game.

I could be wrong but the mod94 was in 25-35 and the Mod92 was in 25-20. On this one I'm leaving the thread to higher authority.

roger

24 May 2006, 13:07

seafire/B17G

As an addendum to this thread, I run across a fellow here in town, both out at the range, and also out in the woods hunting at times....as he hunts a few of the same ridge tops I do...

Granted this is Oregon blacktails, the size of most antelope, but he hunts with a Ruger 77 Mk 2 in 7.62 x 39... His load is a max load of Reloader 7 and a 110 grain Hornady SP or 110 grain Sierra HP....It seems to perform well for him....

A 125 grain Nosler Ballistic tip or a 130 grain Speer SP would be my two bullet choices in this application, with this caliber tho....

24 May 2006, 13:10

seafire/B17G

quote:
could be wrong but the mod94 was in 25-35 and the Mod92 was in 25-20. On this one I'm leaving the thread to "higher authority"

Roger,

Is that a Divinical Higher Authority you speak of, or some Drunk

Arm Chair Ballistician from down at the bar you refer to as a HIGHER Authority?

LoL... Just couldn't resist that one...think I am getting giddy, time to hit the sack!

cheers
seafire

24 May 2006, 18:32

Reloader

steve,

You should be fine at those velocities. I've loaded my 30-30 in the 2200-2300 range before and it still killed very effectively at close range. Matter of fact, last buck I shot w/ it was a 7pt w/ a load about 100 fps faster than you are speaking of. Hit him square in the shoulder at around 30 yards and he made it about 30-40 before piling up. Had to throw about 1/2 of the impact shoulder away and the bullet was in a perfect mushroom on the off side hide.

Anything under 100 yards will be well doable w/ that load.

Heck, My 357 Mag S+W w/ 158s loaded far slower than your velocity is deadly on medium game at close range.

Good Luck

Reloader

24 May 2006, 22:48

Stonecreek

A couple of years ago a certain Hmong hunter was hunting deer in the upper midwest with a 7.62x39. He was apparently distracted from his deer hunting, but did manage to "bag" four or five large-bodied omnivores that would have averaged heavier than the deer he was previously hunting. A tragic but telling testimony to the adequacy of the 7.62x39 for animals in the 150-200 lb range.

25 May 2006, 02:34

steve4102

How about the Sierra 135gr SSP Pro Hunter? Would this be a better choice at these velocities? I get about 2250fps at he muzzle and 1880fps at 150 yards. I stopped testing this bullet after Sierra discontinued it, but, I still have about 900 left.

Thanks

25 May 2006, 07:47

Versifier

I have been told that it was discontinued due to poor sales. It would be a workable choice, but I don't know if it would be the best. FWIW, it is the only Sierra bullet I have ever tried in 30+ years of loading that I could not work up an accurate load for in any of several hand and long guns. If it shoots acceptably in yours, it will do the job.

Have you considered cast boolits? That case is reasonably cast friendly and 113-150gr gas-checked boolits cast of air-cooled wheel weights will perform very well for what you want to do. Decent velocities, acceptable expansion, good accuracy (if sized correctly for the bore). Remember that the .30-30 and .32 spec were originally loaded with cast and their effectiveness on deer was undisputed. Your case spits them out in the same velocity range. You didn't say what you are shooting them out of, but even in a semi-auto action you will have no functioning problems if you keep the gas system cleaned.

26 May 2006, 12:44

papaschmud

quote:
Originally posted by steve4102:
How about the Sierra 135gr SSP Pro Hunter? Would this be a better choice at these velocities? I get about 2250fps at he muzzle and 1880fps at 150 yards. I stopped testing this bullet after Sierra discontinued it, but, I still have about 900 left.

Thanks

Those SSP's would be a great choice. I'm all for bullets holding together but they still need to make decent sized holes. I tried the 110 Barnes X in the 7.62 some years ago. You could get it to 2700, but the exit holes and internal damage left something to be desired.

I never tried the 150's on meat, but I'd bet they'll perform much the same as the x's.

Gabe

26 May 2006, 19:06

El Deguello

I am getting a similar MV from my CZ carbine in that caliber using the Speer .311 180-grain roundnose bullet. Speer tells me it is too slow for reliable expansion, as "that bullet is made for the .303 British". Despite this, the MV is in the class of the original .30/30, 165-grain factory load.

26 May 2006, 22:46

Paul B

quote:
Originally posted by Versifier:

Have you considered cast boolits? That case is reasonably cast friendly and 113-150gr gas-checked boolits cast of air-cooled wheel weights will perform very well for what you want to do. Decent velocities, acceptable expansion, good accuracy (if sized correctly for the bore). Remember that the .30-30 and .32 spec were originally loaded with cast and their effectiveness on deer was undisputed. Your case spits them out in the same velocity range. You didn't say what you are shooting them out of, but even in a semi-auto action you will have no functioning problems if you keep the gas system cleaned.

Good points with one exception. I believe the 30-30 and .32 WS were originally jacketed bullet rounds due to problems with the heat of the then current smokeless powders. I believe that it wasn't until 1905 IITC, that gas checks came out making cast bullets usable in the two cartridges, with one exception. The .32 WS was a smokeless round that could be reloaded with black powdwer. It had a slower twist rate to allow the use of the black powders. The faster twist (1 in 12 in the 30-30, 1 in 16" in the .32 WS) would foul out badly from the black powder residue.
I haven't shot a jacketed load in any of the 30-30 rifles in years and accuracy is just fine even with full powder hunting loads.
I just recently acquired a Winchester 94 in .32 WS and have to get a supply of brass, a bullet mold, sizing dies for the cast bullets and proper sized gas checks. Should be a real choice shooting set up.
Paul B.

28 May 2006, 08:09

steve4102

What about the Remington 150gr Bronze PT. Is this a bullet designed to expand at lower velocities??

28 May 2006, 08:29

vapodog

quote:
Originally posted by steve4102:
Does anybody know how well the Speer 150gr Round Nose #2017 bullet performs at lower velocities. I would like to use this bullet for Whitetails. I am getting 2150fps at the muzzle and about 1740fps at 150 yards. Is this to slow for this bullet to perform properly?

Thanks

A heck of a lot less has been used with real success for many mnay years.

If that was what I had.....I'd use it.....confine shots to 100 yards and go hunting deer.

BTW...the M-94 was indeed chambered in 25-35 and the M-92 was chambered in 25-20. Both poor choices for deer but they work well on Duiker and Steenbok!!!!