The Accurate Reloading Forums
$100 Chronograph?
14 April 2004, 08:54
elkhntr$100 Chronograph?
Can someone reccomend a decent chrono in the $100 dollar range. I will only use it 3 or 4 times a year, so I want something that is fairly inexpensive. I can also calculate the standard deviations by hand if necessary to help keep the cost down.
14 April 2004, 09:03
snake river rufusLook at the entry level PACT. It's only $2 more than the chrony, it is certified(unlike the chrony), and the read out stays on the bench- if you do shoot it you are only out the price of the screens ($25 a pair last I looked).
14 April 2004, 09:09
jeffeossopact or chrony with remote...
both are equally good, and bad..
I like the chrony remote setup, as I don't like the pact hookup
jeffe
14 April 2004, 09:23
snake river rufusAnd the chrony w/ remote is how much over $100? and it still is not certified. It may be accurate or it may not be accurate.
14 April 2004, 10:36
sputsterSnake, the PACT chrono is certified by whom? What's the difference?
I use a Chrony Beta and didn't know better.
14 April 2004, 10:44
jeffeossoQuote:
And the chrony w/ remote is how much over $100? and it still is not certified. It may be accurate or it may not be accurate.
it is 5� UNDER $100
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/688064
How much is the PACT over 100?
I personally have had several chronys and a single pact pro, and found less difference between them than I found in standard deviations of my loads.
I did find, however, that the pact was a pain in the arse to setup, compared to a chrony...
What exactly do you mean "certified" ?
I have searched the pact website, and can not find a single instance of certify/certified/certificate/certification on that although I did find an instance of certainly on their catalog.
In fact, i just got off the phone with PACT, asking if any/all their chronos are "certified" the answer "No, they are not, NONE OF THEM ARE.. now, they are made in the USA, not canada"
Oh, yeah, list on the bottom line pact? 129.99, from the same call
Accuracy?
PACT claims 1/2 of 1%... which is 99.5% accuracy.. 15fps on a 3000 fps load... (from the same call)
Chrony claims ... 99.5% accuracy...
PACT even said they dont THINK it's as good, but they both claim the same accuracy.
The honest fact of the matter is a PACT is ZERO better than a Chrony, and a Chrony is ZERO better than a PACT (they both have pluses and minus's)
and the ONLY chrono, that makes a gnat's hieny better machine, is the oehler, which is 3X the price range.
jeffe
14 April 2004, 10:58
Gringo CazadorI have a Chrony not bad for $100 bucks or whatever I paid for it........just wish I could find it, anybody know where it is, I can loose more crap than anybody I know.
As far as how accurate, not sure any low end electronic device is going to be more than half of 1 % if that. And besides for the typical shooter anything more than that is picking the fly sh....t out of the pepper.
14 April 2004, 11:12
rifleman1I use the basic Chrony with remote - think I paid $85 from Midway. I use it alot - easy set up - only thing I have noticed is that the velocity will read different for same load depending if the sky screens are installed or not - maybe 25 fps difference. I've dropped it by accident, clipped one of the sky screen rods with a 22 LR round(nicely bent now)and blown the sky screens off many times with the 338 and 7mm magnums if set up too close to the muzzle - but I love the thing and it sure is a useful tool for reloading. You can easily spend as much money on bullets, brass and powder trying to develop a load you "think" is traveling at some velocity. Also I found out that velocity spread and accuracy go together - when they don't I know something is amiss and usually I wind up rebedding the stock.
14 April 2004, 11:24
jeffeossoYepppers//
As for usefulness, I rank this right below relaoding books, scale, press, chrono, high end dies...
jeffe
14 April 2004, 11:54
got_the_bugelkhtr...
Check out the Competition Electronics ProChrono Digital...I have been using mine for a few months, and it hasn't yet missed a reading for hundreds of rounds. It is a pretty simple unit, but if you are just looking for velocity figures, this one seems very accurate and reliable. The remote that you can get as an accessory places it up in the territory where you might consider another chronograph, but by itself it is $100. My nitpicky complaint is that I wish it was made of metal rather than plastic, but I guess if you were to shoot it with something other than a BB gun, it wouldn't matter if it was plastic or metal...so far I haven't pulled a Homer (doh!) and sent a 50gr V-Max into mine...knock on wood.
http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/85242914 April 2004, 12:25
dentonIn the under $100 range, get the basic Shooting Chrony. If you shop, you can find them in the low 70's. As stated, they do change readings if you take the screens off. My rule is to chronograph only between about 10:00 and 3:30, on days that you can distinctly see the shadow of the tripod and Chrony, and to always leave the screens on. If you do that, they are very consistent.
I ran the formal stats analysis on mine, and the effective resolution of the Chrony is close to 1 fps. It's really hard to figure why people would pay for more consistency than that.
I haven't had any experience with PACT, so I can't compare.
The IR LED option on the CED unit looks very attractive. If I had a few bucks, and wanted to replace my Chrony, I'd give that serious attention. I don't think the core electronics are any better, but having your own stable, predictable light source probably makes them better.
The time base in all modern chronographs is controlled by a crystal oscillator. Basic accuracy of the beast is going to be comparable to that of an electronic watch... lot's better than you actually need. In the bad old days, keeping timing error below a percent or so was work in most cases. Now, getting .01% is easy as pie.
The biggest assumption you have to make is that the shape of the pulse generated by the bullet is the same for both the front and rear sensors.
14 April 2004, 12:39
Paul HContact shooting chrony and see if they have any factory re-furbs in stock. They were out of the base model re-furb that runs $40, so I bought the next level up re-furb for $50, plus $5 shipping. It provided several years of service until an errant gas check at 1500 fps did it in.
The one problem I've had with the shooting chrony is that with bright sun at a low angle, something Alaskans have to deal with in the winter, you will get inconsistant and missed readings. Asside from that problem, it has been very accurate when I use 22rf and other factory ammo as a test. My velocities have also been spot on for load manual data.
14 April 2004, 12:40
KingfisherI shopped around for Chrony's around Christmas time and I think the best price around is at DNRSports.com. I got a fully loaded Gamma Master Chrony with the remote display and printer for under $150 if I recall. I'm at work at the moment so I can't access their site, but essentially, it's not much more expensive to get the model with all of the doo-dads. You can also buy refurb models direct from Chrony for cheap.
14 April 2004, 15:39
elkhntrIs there a particular brand or option I should look into?
14 April 2004, 15:54
Blackhawk44For the needs you describe, for half a hundred is a reconditioned F-1 Chrony direct from the factory. Check
www.shootingchrony.com. Mine hasn't given a problem in 3 years. With a cheap camera tripod, its the handiest. I can see the display just fine, but if you have trouble at 15 feet, take your binocs. Wear this one out then get upgrades with your next one, if you really think you need them (most people don't).
Item #105 Reconditioned Model F-1 (Painted Red or Dark Green) - U.S. $ 49.95 / CDN $ 74.93
This model can not be upgraded.
Buy it for your buddy. Depending on availability; with 1 year warranty
14 April 2004, 16:04
Snydburnselkhntr , I have the shooters chrony beta, paid $100 for it. It calculates standard dev. I have never owned any other so I cannot compare. A couple of friends and I went in on this one. We were in the same boat as you, we didnt think it would be used that much. We use it all the time though.
14 April 2004, 16:20
SteveEI bought one of these from a company out of Canada.
http://www.chronotar.com/They auction one a week on Ebay
They usually go from 85 to 120 dollars
I got mine for 92.00 USD
I havent used it yet but it has a lot of differant modes
14 April 2004, 16:32
Hondo64dI have been very satisfied with my Pro Chrono, as well.
John
14 April 2004, 16:38
redialAnother vote for the ProChrono Digital. Mine's never missed a shot, keeps track of what I've shot and did I mention has never missed a shot?
My old F1 Chrony missed so many that I usually had to load half again as much ammo as I needed to get the data. I finally shot it - on purpose!
Of the cheapies, I like the ProChrono. About $100 from Midway. For me, there's only this cheapie and the Oehlers.
Redial
14 April 2004, 18:01
GrandpasezI have a couple thousand rounds over our Pro-Chrono,
some 458 Win and the rest 459 & 510 wildcats.Still working
great and I set it out about 18 ft so the muzzle blast doesn't affect readings..Use a 50 lb block of steel in front of the base so that if bullets come apart, machine isn't damaged.Had two thin jacketed bullets come apart
and hit the rods but machine wasn't affected.Seems simple and strong.Ed.
You can get a rebuilt Chrony for around $50. When you hit it (and you will) they will
take it back as trade on another one. You donot need the remote read out as you can
see the numbers ok. Avg, and other statictical information is really of little value.
Recording is with a pencil into a note book (read only memory).
Take Care!
16 April 2004, 08:06
snake river rufusTell me this- why do gun mag. editors rufuse to accept data compiled on a chrony? Why does ( or did) USPSA's rule book state clearly that the chrony brand was unacceptable to determine major power factor? Yes, plugging in 1 cable is a pain in the "arse". It's real obvious that you haven't used a PACT and I doubt you have called them.
16 April 2004, 08:42
dentonGun magazine editors do accept data compiled on a Chrony. I've had a couple of articles published that used Chrony data.
16 April 2004, 09:13
snake river rufusWhat magazine? Under what name?
16 April 2004, 09:41
dentonVarmint Hunter, Denton Bramwell. One item I did was a formal statistical analysis of the Chrony's repeatability, which is excellent.
Now I have to ask: Since you have Snake River in your name, you're probably from Idaho, like I am. How do you navigate out there in middle-America, where there are no mountains to steer by? When I lived out there, I finally gave up and got a compass for my car.
16 April 2004, 11:24
billtCount me in as another satisfied Pro Chrono Digital user. They have a much larger area to shoot over than the Chrony does. Bill T.
16 April 2004, 15:53
IceHoleKenI am on my third Crony, for some reason I think its a target, anyways... whatever brand you buy, they all work, but its hard to beat a basic Crony for about $70. I have the Crony Beta now after the upgrades. I posted this before, but for just $2 you can protect it by welding a couple pieces of steel together.
16 April 2004, 16:05
Skidlyi'm using mine to chrony my 50bmg loads ..... I don't think that would save it, LOL
16 April 2004, 16:29
IceHoleKenLOL, good one Skiddy! It looks like it would be another upgrade if you hit it with the BMG. The chip out of the top of the angle iron was with a 45-70, most other calibers are deflected.
16 April 2004, 19:05
GatehouseI've got a reconditioned Chrony...about 65$ Canadian.
I know two guys that have Ohelers, with all the bells and whistles.
What is interesting, is that I have shot over one of thier Ohlers..and they give the same readings as my Chrony!!
You can buy 2 if you want to double check things!
Set them up one right behind the other. If somethings hinky, you will see it pretty quick!
How many of us need to know within 5fps how fast our bullet is going, anyway?
20 April 2004, 03:05
snake river rufusQuote:
Varmint Hunter, Denton Bramwell. One item I did was a formal statistical analysis of the Chrony's repeatability, which is excellent.
Now I have to ask: Since you have Snake River in your name, you're probably from Idaho, like I am. How do you navigate out there in middle-America, where there are no mountains to steer by? When I lived out there, I finally gave up and got a compass for my car.
So you did an article on the chrony itself, do you think that you could show an article wherein the author used a chrony to report load data? I should note that one of your fellows that also has published in varmint hunter, Rocky Raab, has said the same thing that I have about editors and chronys.
I lived in Salt Lake city as a youngster ('60-'62) and vacationed along the snake river.
20 April 2004, 03:56
jeffeossoRSR,
Hey Pal.. i had a pact PRO... which I sold to a buddy for the same price he was thinking about buying a shooting chrony for. If you like, i can post a pic of me with it.. he just lives across town... I bought the pact PRO from a fella from this very forum, in fact.
If you care to call me a liar, please lay it out in that fashion, as I'll assume good intent and spirited conversation from this comment "... a PACT and I doubt you have called them"
You know, I don't think i can make up the quotes as given by the fella from the phone, but be real sure to call them and ask about them... ask the same questions...
why do editors refuse them? WHO PAYS THE ADVERTISING???
these same editors allow rick jamison to get paid
as far "major power" goes... I hadn't read that.. got a website were I can read that ruling? Perhaps it DID read that, in the past, and the issue was cleared up?
facts are facts, opinions and intreptations of them vary...
good hunting
jeffe
20 April 2004, 06:24
snake river rufusEditors refuse them because the chrony is wildly inaccurate. I'll keep trying to make that point.
Point of fact: chrony advertises in the same mags that won't let thier writers use them.
Do a web search for U.S.P.S.A. and check under "club rules" might also want to check up the cowboy action associations, I've been told one of them has similar wording.
No issue to clear up, the chrony is sub-standard.
You are right- facts are facts- accept it.
Oh, I'm not your pal-and I've seen enough of your posts to be fairly certain of your honesty, it's much like chrony's accuracy- a sometimes thing.
20 April 2004, 07:35
jeffeossoQuote:
Editors refuse them because the chrony is wildly inaccurate. I'll keep trying to make that point.
Point of fact: chrony advertises in the same mags that won't let thier writers use them.
Do a web search for U.S.P.S.A. and check under "club rules" might also want to check up the cowboy action associations, I've been told one of them has similar wording.
No issue to clear up, the chrony is sub-standard.
You are right- facts are facts- accept it.
Oh, I'm not your pal-and I've seen enough of your posts to be fairly certain of your honesty, it's much like chrony's accuracy- a sometimes thing.
Thanks for being honest with your opinions.
Again, please provide a link to the rules that have this listed, and, oh, perhaps a fact or two to backup what you have stated.... Like a published report from a magazine that states they won't use a shooting chrony.
Appreciate your opinions, pal... chunk in a fact or two... backup a single statement you make, and then they'll become something other than opinion.
I'll take this as a RETRACTION of your stipulation that I haven't used a pact Pro.. unless you just really need the picture.....
funny thing about a stream of facts... they tend to wash the mounds of BS away...
jeffe
20 April 2004, 08:56
jeffeossoQuote:
Tell me this- why do gun mag. editors rufuse to accept data compiled on a chrony? Why does ( or did) USPSA's rule book state clearly that the chrony brand was unacceptable to determine major power factor? wrong Yes, plugging in 1 cable is a pain in the "arse". It's real obvious that you haven't used a PACT and I doubt you have called them.
Here's a link to the USPSA's rulebook.
http://www.uspsa.org/nf/practical_shooting.html
No mention of CHRONY is made. In fact, the term A CHRONOGRAPH is used, with no clarification.
You also mention cowboy action, so I checked SASS� again incorrect, NO MENTION of SHOOTING CHRONY or CHRONY is made
http://www.sassnet.com/pages/shootershandbook.html
So, I did a search on �IPSC CHRONY MAJOR POWER� from google� and the references include a direct link TO shooting chrony and links the same advice given here.. you might (will) shoot your chrono, so be careful.
To set the facts straight
1: Neither the Chrony nor the Pact are �certified� per conversations with the makers and a review of their websites and available documentation
2: BOTH are advertised as 99.5% accurate
3: No (major) shooting association has official sanctions AGAINST chrony
4: Both are equally good choice, depending on the user�s taste
5: the pact PRO has two unmarked cables, 1/4inch jacks, that is a hassle to setup
Now, SRR, I believe we have established a factual STREAM. Do you wish to resend some statements you made in relation to these chronographs, or will you just be like that old farmer who said �I�ve made up my mind, don�t bother confusing me with facts�
jeffe
20 April 2004, 09:28
snake river rufusI was not able to get the 14th edition rule book to open, seems it has been down most of the day. Are you sure that you did?
If you want to set the facts straight- just show me one article in a recognized shooting/hunting mag.that the data is presented from a chrony.
You can type out all the crap that you wish, call it fact if you want to- and still be wrong as can be!
The only stream is pouring from you.
20 April 2004, 10:12
jeffeossoQuote:
I was not able to get the 14th edition rule book to open, seems it has been down most of the day. Are you sure that you did?
If you want to set the facts straight- just show me one article in a recognized shooting/hunting mag.that the data is presented from a chrony.
You can type out all the crap that you wish, call it fact if you want to- and still be wrong as can be!
The only stream is pouring from you.
SRR,
I sure did pull the PDF down... and frankly, you are the one calling the chrony junk, stating that editors and assosications refuse to use them. I am asking you to just make ONE clear quote, from any source you have aleady brought up, that says "these are BAD" ...
I guess you are being like that old farmer... your mind IS made up.... and the "authorities" you cited disagree with you... there's a fact
I have posted direct links to sites
checked YOUR stipulated facts
chased down your STIPULATED facts
provided refence material to review and allow one to make their OWN decisions
chased down the "fact' that pact is NOT certified, from PACT themselves
and you have provided statements
1: editors refuse to use chrony data (unproven)
2: that USPSA says you can't use a chrony (disproven)
3: that some cowboy action assoc dont' allow for chrony (sass DISPROVEN)
Now, SRR, you've got a pretty good and clear choice,
1: provide data from a current shooting mag editor that clearly disallows the chrony
2: just go ahead and restate your "facts" as your "opinions" rather than making personal affronts
3: keep charging full steam ahead... and make it certain beyond the shadow of a doubt that you are inflexible in the presence of facts against your opinions.
I guess 4... YOU make emails to pact, chrony, sass, and USPSA, and present your findings on their specs and stances on their products and the chrony.
stream of facts to try and help wash away the BS
jeffe
20 April 2004, 11:21
jeffeossoQuote:
Tell me this- why do gun mag. editors rufuse to accept data compiled on a chrony?
Please back this statement up with either a quote with date and page, or an email from the editors of said mag.
Simple enough?
jeffe
20 April 2004, 11:55
cukrusTwo points:
1. shoot a large enough sample to get satistically meaningful data (12 - 15 shots min. 20 - 30 better etc.)
2. if the sun is low tip the unit as much as needed.
cukrus
20 April 2004, 13:00
dentonTaking up the challenge, I thumbed through the April 2003 Varmint Hunter, and right there on page 145, middle of the page, it says, "...and my Master Beta Chrony tells me that I'm actually getting 2,650..." Having found one reference so easily, I didn't bother trying for more.
So, apparently, that very respectable magazine has no problem accepting Chrony data.