A question of annealing.

11 March 2016, 11:27

All,

(*I should qualify this whole discussion by saying I'm more a hunter than a pure target shooter. If I can group .75 MOA I'm very satisfied. Yeah, .75" isn't even bush league for the bench rest game. I'm ok with it.)

When I think of Annealing my thoughts normally think of Preserving Brass Life. Going through my safe I'm really not concerned with cartridges like 7mm RM or .375 H&H. Brass is readily available and not likely to ever go out of fashion. For that matter, my .257 Roberts can be formed from '06 brass if I really needed to. Though I've never found finding it a problem.

I do have a 7mm SAUM in the safe - somewhat uncommon brass. My reloads last 10 reloads.

I resize and trim-die after each reloading mostly because that's what I like to do. Surely that's got to be work-hardening the brass.

But (here's the question)...does it matter?

My reloads are mild compared to factory Rem ammo - which is damn hot and locks the bolt for 10 seconds even after one shot. I get 3,000 fps with a 140 AB. Factory Rem Premium 160 NP's deliver a clocked 2950 fps and freeze the bolt for several seconds after firing. So, I presume my loads are mild.

I'm quite satisfied with my velocity and the accuracy is there. I get 10 reloads from brass before I see neck splitting.

It would be one thing if I'm splitting brass in 3 reloads but 10? With constant resizing?

So, I'm wondering: is there really a value in annealing? Does annealing deliver 20+ reloads on brass?

11 March 2016, 16:22

p dog shooter

quote:
If I can group .75 MOA I'm very satisfied. Yeah, .75" isn't even bush league for the bench rest game. I'm ok with it.)

It was not that long ago a .75 hunting rifle was a miracle.

Better bullets better barrels ect ect.

11 March 2016, 18:25

snowman

quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:
All,

(*I should qualify this whole discussion by saying I'm more a hunter than a pure target shooter. If I can group .75 MOA I'm very satisfied. Yeah, .75" isn't even bush league for the bench rest game. I'm ok with it.)

When I think of Annealing my thoughts normally think of Preserving Brass Life. Going through my safe I'm really not concerned with cartridges like 7mm RM or .375 H&H. Brass is readily available and not likely to ever go out of fashion. For that matter, my .257 Roberts can be formed from '06 brass if I really needed to. Though I've never found finding it a problem.

I do have a 7mm SAUM in the safe - somewhat uncommon brass. My reloads last 10 reloads.

I resize and trim-die after each reloading mostly because that's what I like to do. Surely that's got to be work-hardening the brass.

But (here's the question)...does it matter?

My reloads are mild compared to factory Rem ammo - which is damn hot and locks the bolt for 10 seconds even after one shot. I get 3,000 fps with a 140 AB. Factory Rem Premium 160 NP's deliver a clocked 2950 fps and freeze the bolt for several seconds after firing. So, I presume my loads are mild.

I'm quite satisfied with my velocity and the accuracy is there. I get 10 reloads from brass before I see neck splitting.

It would be one thing if I'm splitting brass in 3 reloads but 10? With constant resizing?

So, I'm wondering: is there really a value in annealing? Does annealing deliver 20+ reloads on brass?

Rnovi Not all brass is the same, some necks will crack long before your 10 loads. I have several calibres that brass is either very difficult to obtain or very expensive. I anneal the cases after every 5 firings and yes I have some cases that have been fired 20 + times. Since Rem Saum brass is getting harder to obtain this may be an option for you. Hope that helps.

11 March 2016, 20:15

dpcd

I never anneal unless forming. But I have a lot of brass to cycle through and rarely get to ten loadings. It depends on your situation.
And .75 MOA is great for the calibers I shoot; few under 33 caliber. (Those do shoot under that)

11 March 2016, 20:25

Stonecreek

quote:
Originally posted by rnovi:

I do have a 7mm SAUM in the safe - somewhat uncommon brass.

I won't comment on annealing, but would just point out that 7mm SAUM is easily formed from 7mm WSM or .300 WSM brass, either of which is relatively abundant. Of course, the forming process itself may require annealing for best results.

12 March 2016, 09:29

georgeld

Two experiences I've had. .222mag and only 100 cases for years. I never knew anything about: cleaning, trimming, neck sizing, and sure nothing about annealing cases. I FL sized every time with an old set of Herter's dies.

Ended up shooting the barrel out with those 100 cases. Loaded and fired them just over 6000 shots, 60+ reloadings! Had the rifle rebarreled to .223 just to get more brass as many a day on the ranch I fired 400 rounds with them. Had to drive to the house and reload, grab more cold beer too of course.

At the end: I'd split ONE neck, crushed 2 in the press and me and a friend each lost one. I sold the last 95 to a guy hurting for .222mag cases. He'd cleaned and trimmed etc and fired them three times, last I heard he was still happy to get them. Don't ask me how they lasted that long, no clues.

I just got 500 7mm and 300 U/mag cases and necked to .358 for a build I had done. .35 is the only caliber Rem hasn't made for the Ultra mag.

I didn't anneal at first, split 35 +- necks. Annealed and dropped ten in water, ten air cooled. Seven of the water quenched split. None of the air cooled did. This was my first annealing of brass and I wanted to check what I'd learned in college metallurgy class about such things.

Just my experiences is all. Take it or leave it.
George

12 March 2016, 21:37

rnovi

Thanks guys, I appreciate the input.

Looks like I won't need to worry about Annealing for a while. Even for my rarest caliber (SAUM) I have 50 brand new pieces of brass and 280 rounds of factory ammo. I figure I'm good for a long, long time.

12 March 2016, 23:06

carpetman1

A split neck is no big deal when it happens but a case head separation is another deal. I hope my brass failure is a split neck. I don't anneal for that reason.

15 March 2016, 10:24

eagle27

I anneal to preserve my 404 cases which are relatively expensive and hard to get here. If firing older Kynoch factory ammo, the cases that do not split necks on first firing need annealing and then they have a multi loading lifespan.

Many of us clean primer pockets, polish cases, clean inside necks, chamfer case mouths, carefully size cases to headspace on the shoulder even belted cases, seat bullets to just clear the lands, etc., etc., none of which is needed in many cases. To be honest why reload, there is factory ammo around to suit all but the wildcats and most of it today is as good for hunting as reloads.

Annealing is just another step in case preparation that many reloaders undertake for various reasons. It is a quick and simple process but often treated as some dark mystery that needs rocket science to achieve.

15 March 2016, 20:20

larrys

I shoot 6.5-06AI. After 3 or so loadings the Winchester 270 brass would begin to split necks just from loading and sitting around for a year, so they definitely got work hardened.

I began to anneal after every other loading and the splitting went away. The Remington brass never split, just the Winchester. I figured it was just harder to begin with.

17 March 2016, 04:59

ted thorn

Annealing may or may not be a waste of time

But then again.......so is golf......in which I don't play

17 March 2016, 19:50

DaveinWV

Properly done, annealing can help and not hurt your brass. It may not help but annealing can do more than just help(?) brass life.

18 March 2016, 23:56

Atkinson

During WW2, ammo and brass was impossible to come by..I learned to anneal early on..I made 40 30-06 cases last almost forever by annealing each time I reloaded them..Done properly is works, end of story..We had to learn by necessity.

Today with most of the brass I use, I can load it 14 times with about 4 trims, by then I just toss it and buy another hundred or two..

With the poor decision of Win. and Rem. to no longer produce most brass, annealing is certainly a consideration with some hard to find brass such as the 25-35, 250 Savage, and some others. However I see some light down the road as other companies like Jamison and Hornady are jumping on the band wagon and coming out with some of the older calibers..

I like the fact that I can anneal if need be and make a 100 rounds last almost forever, it works, some run into problems perhaps because they only anneal every 4th reload as suggested by some, dunno!

You wont normally have head separation if you anneal, that's nonsense. I have never had head separation with an annealed case. why that is I have no idea other than head separation apparently has something to do with the rest of the case, like streatching for instance would be my guess...