14 March 2004, 19:23
Lar45WC852 in 06
I bought a jug of WC852 along with 3 other surplus burn rates. I had been loading RL22 with a rem 165 pspcl in the 06's. I tried some of the WC852 and worked up to the same velocity 2700ish, but I got bright marks on the case head. Compareing with other powders useing a similar charge weight for similar velocity, then the pressure looked like it should have been okay. Does the WC852 produce more pressure without generateing the velocity? It seems odd that you could get one without the other.
Thoughts?
15 March 2004, 02:21
p dog shooterI have used jugs of the stuff in 06 and other cases the lots that I have seem really slow. As with any surplus powder lots very a lot in burning speed. I like it meters well is cheap and gives me all the vel I need but then I don't push things. I have no trouble getting mid 2600s with a 180 gr match kings out of my target 26 inch 06 with great groups. I use it in my 338 and 300 mag I get very useful vel out of them both not the fastest but accurate loads from all of them. 2600 with 250s in 338 and 2950 with 180s in the 300wm
To get 2700 out of a 22inch 06 with 180s I went with 4831.
15 March 2004, 04:33
TCLouisLar45 et al
Which LOT# of WC852 did you buy into? ? ?
THERE ARE THREE DIFFERENT LOTS WITH SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT BURN RATES! ! ! !
Batch 1 (WC852-S)is essentially 4831 in a ball form!
Batch 2 (WC852-M) is 380 burn rate!
Batch 3 (WC852-f) is 4895 burn rate!
Good thing I went to Bartlett's site as I had M & F mixed up (guess that is why it ALWAYS pays to check reloading data). PEASE CHECK ME WITH INFORMATION FROM YOUR POWDER SUPPLIER ON THIS BEFORE LOADING, I COULDA GOOFED.
Jeff told me that he was amazed at the difference in burn rates of the WC series as one (forget which he said) had a burning rate from 3031 to 4831 depending on lot!
I guess when one is gonna load a million or two rounds of a particular powder lot they can experiment to get load down with 50-100 rounds
I have WC 852 M & S and they doo seem to perform about as predicted by the supplier (HI-TECH or Bartlett).
15 March 2004, 22:00
Lar45Yes, pressure does not = velocity. But if you have 2 loads at the same pressure, one with a fast powder and one that uses 10gns more of a slower powder, then the slow powder load should produce more velocity at the same pressure shouldn't it?
16 March 2004, 01:17
Hot CoreHey Lar45, It does sound logical, but there are exceptions. One book that would help you understand this is the Hodgdon Manual. It lists various loads along with the Velocities and Pressures. Their web site may have it as well, but I just look in my book.
Using your 30-06 and a 150gr bullet:
63.5gr H450 gave 2825fps and 48,000cup
50.0gr H335 gave 2839fps and 48,400cup
This example shows the Pressures and Velocities to be statistically equal, and we had 13.5gr more of the slower powder.
But if we add H414 to the list we get:
63.5gr H450 gave 2825fps and 48,000cup
58.0gr H414 gave 3043fps and 48,700cup
50.0gr H335 gave 2839fps and 48,400cup
Here you still have statistically equal Pressures, but 5.5grains more of H450 gave 200fps less Velocity. And when the H414 is compared to the H335 then it is a totally different result.
...
There are other examples in most every cartridge, but this is just one that anyone can verify by simply looking in the Hodgdon Manual.
Rules-of-Thumb are nice to have, but they need to always be correct so as not to create "logic confusion". In this situation saying
"Pressure DOES NOT equal Velocity" is the best and SAFEST way to think of their relationship.
852 is my favorite '06 powder. I must have gotten the medium rate, I used to think I had the fast, until I read this thread. I figured the burning rate was like W-760. Anyway, 50 grains and a 173 gr fmj was a dandy match load. It shoots very straight out to 600 yards. I once shot a 99 with a bunch of x's in the off hand section of the NM course using a nice Garand using that load. Normaly I shot in the 470s with that load.
If you have bright ejector marks you need to back off.