Re: Is Breathing Moly Dust Harmful?

07 January 2004, 03:38

Hot Core

Quote:

...I ...take the bullets out of the box and position them on top of the case in the loading die.

Hey LE270, It looks like to me that you are skipping one step - applying Carnuba.

I've been using Moly way back since it first came out and really like it for my rifles. But, the way you are doing it is one step short of what I do. If you are happy with your results, just ignore the rest of this post.

I take untreated Corn Cob polishing media and treat it with "Liquid Kit Car Wax". I use the Liquid Kit because the ingredients list "Carnuba" as the Main Ingredient, but anything with a lot of Carnuba in it will do.

Add some Carnuba to the media, let it tumble for 45-60min and then feel it. Rub some between your fingers and you should feel the Wax on your finger tips. If you don't, add more Wax and let it go another hour.

Once you get it "Waxy", drop your Moly peened bullets into the Carnuba-Corn Cob. Only tumble for 60 seconds MAX. < !--color-->Then remove your bullets and you can handle them normally just like the factory Moly Coated bullets.

I've intended to run some testing with Carnuba Coated bullets without Moly to see how well they do. Just haven't gotten around to it. But, I'd strongly encourage you to add the Carnuba Step to your process.

Oh yes, before starting the Moly Coating process, be sure to soak the bullets in Hot "Dawn" dishwashing soap for 30min. Rinse in Hot water and let them dry well. Then start Moly Coating. This removes the Forming Oil from the jacket and eliminates "Spotting" of the Moly.

Best of luck to you.

07 January 2004, 06:28

bluetick

Quote:

Oh yes, before starting the Moly Coating process, be sure to soak the bullets in Hot "Dawn" dishwashing soap for 30min. Rinse in Hot water and let them dry well. Then start Moly Coating. This removes the Forming Oil from the jacket and eliminates "Spotting" of the Moly.

I just coated some NBT the other day and after reading this realized I forgot to wash them first. They turned out fine looking. Do you think the oil on the bullits will cause problems later. Like make the moly come off easyer? Like I said they looked fine though.

Shawn

07 January 2004, 06:59

Ricochet

Doesn't it seem like a lot more work goes into moly-coating the bullets than cleaning a rifle?

07 January 2004, 15:08

LE270

Quote:

Doesn't it seem like a lot more work goes into moly-coating the bullets than cleaning a rifle?

No.

Let's assume we are talking about a box of 100 bullets. If you don't moly coat those bullets, you'll probably need to clean the rifle after 20 shots. If you do moly coat you can go to 50 shots or even more before cleaning. So if you don't moly coat you'll need to clean that rifle a minimum of 5 times in the course of shooting that box of bullets. If you do moly coat you'll need to clean it twice.

Moly coating the bullets takes less than an hour, and you can do other things for much of that time -- i.e., the time the bullets are in the tumbler. Cleaning a rifle may take as much as an hour, but let's say it's half an hour. So for the two cleanings plus moly coating the bullets, you will use a total of 2 hours. For the non-coated bullets you'll need five cleaning sessions of half an hour each -- that's 2 and a half hours. So the cleaning time alone is greater with the non moly coated bullets than the moly coating plus cleaning time with the coated ones.

07 January 2004, 19:18

Ray, Alaska

Quote:

From a technical viewpoint, breathing anything other than earth's atmosphere is harmful.

But the advantage to breathing moly dust would probably being about to spit further with less effort...

That's quite funny, ricciaderlli. However, at least it won't turn him into "sleek Willy."

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Seriously now: It's probably not a good idea to inhale any dust, specially concentrated ingredients such as Molybdenum. One time exposure may not be too bad, but it would be a good idea to take precautions so it won't happen again. The dust you can see gives you a warning of its presence in the air, but a great number of particles are invisible to the human eye.

Moly may not be too hazardous at the moment, because not too many tests have been performed on its hazards. If you know the brand name of the product, you can contact the company that produces it and ask for a MSDS. The MSDS will show you the hazards, including breathing hazards and things like that. More than likely it will be at least the following or more:

Personal protection:

Safety glasses. Do not breathe dust.

08 January 2004, 00:53

parryj

Why not skip all that and use spray on moly? Sticks well and is not messy when dry.

08 January 2004, 02:23

Hot Core

Quote:

.... Do you think the oil on the bullits will cause problems later. Like make the moly come off easyer? Like I said they looked fine though.

Hey Shawn and LE270, If you got full coverage and they don't look spotty my "guess" is they will be fine.

I had some "spotting or freckling" a long time ago and tracked it down to the Forming Oil. At that time I was using mostly Sierra bullets to Benchmark a rifle and they always wash(remove the Forming Oil) their bullets prior to boxing. Then when I went to some other bullets, the spotting began.

At that time, I'm pretty sure Sierra was the only bullet manufacturer doing the washing. Today, that may have changed due to a lot of the companies offering Moly Coating on some bullets and not on others of the same exact size.

So, if they look OK, don't worry about it on the ones you have done < !--color-->.

The reason I said "Dawn" is because it is the only one I've used. Other dishwashing liquids may do as well, but I'm only recommending what I know works for sure. And change the hot rinse water a couple of times.

08 January 2004, 02:41

Hot Core

Quote:

Why not skip all that and use spray on moly? Sticks well and is not messy when dry.

Hey parryj, That is a good question. The short answer is - some of the Spray On Moly Coatings aren't as good as the "Peened on Moly".

First off, if you are doing the Spraying after the bullet is Seated in the case, then the vast majority of the Bullet's Bearing Surface(contact patch with the barrel) will not get any Moly on it. Thus, it is useless.

Second is the fragility of the Spray on coating. Spray Moly Coat a bullet and then Seat it in a case where the Case Mouth Chamfer has been polished with "0000 Steel Wool". (The polishing removes any minute burrs remaining from the Chamfering.) Then "pull" the bullet from the Case and look it over. In most cases, the Sprayed on Moly will be gone over most of the Bullet where it was Seated. Doing the same thing with a "Peened on Moly" Bullet will show the Moly is still where you want it.

I've heard some of the Spray Moly products recommend "Baking" the coating onto the Bullet. That might help, but my "guess" is a large portion of it will still be removed during Seating.

If the Spray works well for you or someone you know, please let us know the procedure you all use to put it on. And let us know how well it does when Pulling a Bullet. Products get better all the time, and I'm interested if you see something different from what I've experienced.

Best of luck to you.

08 January 2004, 13:18

RIP

LE270,
Molybdenum is a trace mineral nutrient in many foods. The somewhat uncertain RDA is about 75 to 250 micrograms per day for adults. It is an ingredient in our own bodies' enzymes that allow us to detoxify some other poisons, like sulfites.

However, about a 100 fold increase in dose (again uncertain) may be poisonous, say 10 mg per day on a regular basis. This may cause kidney, liver, and CNS toxicity eventually.

If you eat too much of it too often, it might make you turn yellow, quit urinating, stagger and have seizures, and kill you eventually.

It is just food, in trace amounts, but toxic if too much exposure. That is elemental molybdenum. I guess the same applies to the sulfides.

I don't like the mess of dealing with the moly sulfide products, for bullet coating. But, I would say if your gonna, then wear a mask and gloves when things get messy.

08 January 2004, 13:51

Hellrazor

Lloyd, whats the worst that could happen? Growing a third arm would be usefull while reloading. A third eye would be cool for shooting.. dont worry about it.