I am searching for loading data on the British .404 Jeffery. I have a good idea of where to start, but am hoping someone has some experience and willing to share their information.

Been shooting one for 45 years, and there is only one powder, IMR-4831. All loads are for 400 gr. bullets with Fed 215 primers in Bell, Norma and RWS brass, all are mild of pressure in my 26" barrel Mauser. All 5 shot averages.

1. 95 grs. IMR-4831 2662FPS
2. 93 " " " 2440 "
3. 90 " " " 2372
4. 87 " " " 2307

All good accurate loads

I have shot 78,79 grs. of RL-15 for 2475 av. and 84 grs of 4350 and these are nice loads but I only use IMR4831 for my hunting rifles and mostly the 87 gr. load as it does a fine job on Buffalo with softs and solids.

------------------
Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

Oh geez, Ray! Two grains of powder jumped the velocity 222 fps, or 111 fps/grain, going from 93 to 95 grain charges. From 87 to 93 grains, the velocity increase was a uniform 22 fps/grain.

I would say you have a serious head of steam with the 95 grain load.

Don't you think you ought to quit at 93 grains? And for the hot weather your 87 grain choice load seems perfect.

How long is the barrel and what kind of range temperatures were those velocities developed in?

You just confirmed my preference for the 416 Rigby.

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RAB

Ray? We must agree to disagree lest we become dull boys here. I repeat:

Oh geez! Don't you think you ought to edit that post, lest someone wreck a perfectly good 404? Maybe just an Art Alphin style disclaimer on some of that data.

I always wondered how you got such velocities out of that antique. Now I know.

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RAB

[This message has been edited by DaggaRon (edited 04-12-2002).]

Anybody else got any recipes for the 404 J?

I wonder if Ray's loads are compressed?

As suggested elsewhere by another forumnus, H-4831 may be less temperature sensitive, and it is a bit slower than IMR-4831. I think a case full of H-4831 might be the ticket in the 404 J. Alas, I don't have a 404 J, and probably never will since I have a 416 Rigby. Guess I will check the Reloading pages and see if _Any Shot You Want_ has anything on this, to satisfy my curiosity.

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RAB

[This message has been edited by DaggaRon (edited 04-16-2002).]

Test

I,too, am seeking loading data on the 404 Jeffery. Things I need to know are where data can be obtained? What powders (I've got Ray's recommendations)? That is the max case length? What is the trim-to length? What shell holder and where do I get it? What about a trimming tool case-mouth guide? What trimming tool shell holder will work? What about crimping? (Can you crimp with the bullet seater as it says you can in the RCBS Loading Manual?)

I'm going to use Norma brass, Woodleigh bullets, Federal 215 primers and RCBS dies.

Beyond that, I'm as lost as a Baptist in a Synagogue.

Test

------------------
RAB

The 404 Jeffery has about the same expansion ratio and case volume as a 416 Remington Mag.
Therefore, 416 Remington Mag loads should be a very good indicator of what the 404 Jeffery can do.

I have never believed Ray's stories about 2650fps with the Jeffery out of his 27 inch Jeffery rifle. If that is what his chrono said I think he needs to get it calibrated if you know what I mean.

As far as, reloading goes I would surrogate the 416 Rem Mag load data for the 404 Jeffery. You might want to check Norma's website they might have load data available since the make brass.

Todd E

Thank you all for your input. The info is quite useful. Keep'em coming guys.
I have searched loading manuals to no avail. I have contacted powder manufactures only to be told they don't have that data or be given a VERY toned down load. I know I can purchase loaded ammo, but it is cheaper to load myself.

The only manual that has loading info for the 404 is A-Square and I can't seem to find it. Do either of you have a number or address for A-Square?

DaggaRon: I have owned two .416 Remingtons and had the opportunity to buy a .416 Rigby, but the nostalgia behind the .404 made me a fan and I passed on the Rigby. Now I am having my .416 converted to the .404. Don't get me wrong the 416 is a nice rifle, but again the history and nostalgia of the .404 is hard to ignore.

[This message has been edited by TimmyBigBore (edited 04-18-2002).]

The last message was posted by my wife trying to remember what I told her to post.

Anyway...

GAHUNTER -- Aside from Ray�s loads, NORMA has loads on the �net�; Midway has brass and bullets; Barnes has bullets; A-Square has them. The brass Midway carries is Bell and is good. Call RCBS for the shell holder. No need to crimp with proper sized expander plug.

I now have data for powder from 3031 to 4831 -- though limited it may be. I have worked with the .416 Remington and case capacities are quite similar. Bullet diameter is not that much different as the .404 is actually .423. So loads for the .416 Remington should be a good place to start (at starting loads of course), If your gun is new or has a modern action, you can up factory velocities by a bit. If your gun is on an older action or an original .404, have it checked by a competent smith.

Hope this helps some. As my load testing goes and I gather data, I will post info.

Tim

[This message has been edited by TimmyBigBore (edited 04-18-2002).]

Thanks Timmy. (By the way, how's Lassie doin')

Have you found case diminsions? How about trim-to length and max length? What are you doing for a pilot in your trimmer?

It's these little things that I'm having trouble finding info on. Brass, powder, bullets, primers, recipes, etc., I've got covered.

From my A-Square manual
Spec length 2.875
Trim to 2.865
A-square says to crimp
If you can't find a pilo have a local machin shop make you one (simple lathe job)

Timmy: If you want to look at a A-spuare manual, I'm about 2 1/2 hours north of you
Tailgunner@M33Access.com
I got mine from Midway

Thanks Tailgunner. That info completes my need for info (right now, at least) on loading the 404 Jeffery.

I've already got a couple of 44 caliber pilots that I will try to put in a drill and lathe down myself. I wonder if the 404 shell will fit in a trimmer shell holder ment for a WSM. After all, the WSM is a Jeffery slightly rebated.

My final loads will be: Norma brass (trimmed
to 2.865 inches)
Woodleigh 400 grain
bullets (both soft
point and solid).
Federal 215 primers.
H 4831 or IMR 4831
loaded to a velocity
of approximately
2400 fps.

Any other suggestions? What about crimping? Should I just lightly roll crimp the bullet with the bullet seater?

GAHunter: TailGunner�s case lengths are right, but I checked several new Bell cases and they measure 2.854. As for the pilot, have someone turn down one for the .444-.44 mag on a lathe. 422 diameter should work well. Lyman has a book called Big Game Cartridges and Rifles written by Ed Matunas (you can order this from Midway too. Order# 306-958, $17.99.) There is a section on the .404 giving all case dimensions except rim thickness, so I miced mine -- .45 to .48 inch (all cases based on the .06 vary in rim thickness and use the same shell holder). A shell holder for the 30/40 Krag should work great as rim diameters are .543 on the 404 and .545 on the Krag. (The only reason I mention rim thickness is because the 404 rim is thin enough to fit in the 30/40 Krag without too much slop.) The Krag�s rim is slightly thicker at .64. However, on several of my belted mag�s rim thickness varies that much from brand to brand.

Thanks for the info guys.

P.S.: NO LASSIE --- Just Harley-Davidson and Mickey (both canine)

GAHUNTER: The WSM is its own case design. The Ultra Mags from Remington, both short and long, are based on the 404 case.

FYI: This is TimmyBigBore (never liked that name). It think this suits me better.

[This message has been edited by Wild_Bore (edited 04-19-2002).]

GAHUNTER: Are you still looking for a shell holder for the .404? If you are, I have an extra one.

HI,

TODD, you know more on this subject than I do, but I think according to your own data did't the 404 Jeff have about 4 or 5 grains more capacity than the 416 Remington. If that is true I think that would give it more fps than the 416 Remington, maybe not much, but it must do more. Even if it were 80 fps, I have seen reloading data for the 416 Remington with a 400 grain bullet close to 2500fps out of a 24 inch barrel? Thanks,Kev

Todd,

In the 416 Remington I had, I could obtain 2500 OK with 400 grainers and 24 inch barrel on Rem 700. Factory ammo averaged just over 2410.

Now if we increase the bore to .423 and all else is equal, that should take us to 2520. If the 404 case is 6% bigger than the 416 Reington then that should give us alnmost another 40 f/s which takes us to 2560.

Rays rifle hasa 27 inch barrel, so that might add another 75 f/s which takes us to 2635 f/s

My 2500 on the 416 Rem was "at the chronograph" so that might add another 15 f/s for muzzle velocity and when that 15 f/s is added in, that takes us to 2650 f/s.

Oh, plus or minus 3 f/s

Mike