How many shots?

14 June 2001, 11:02

John Frazer

How many shots?

How many shots do you fire in each group to test the accuracy of a load when initially working it up?

I've seen recommendations anywhere between 3 and 20. I usually feel comfortable with the Speer manual's suggestion to shoot 7 but if I have, say, only 15 once-fired cases and need to test three different increments of powder, I'm comfortable with 5.

14 June 2001, 11:25

RCHAPURA

I shoot three shot strings at a time, then go back and shoot more of the loads that shoot best. In a hunting rifle I see no need to shoot more than three. In my match rifles I will shoot twenty round strings to see how they hold up.

14 June 2001, 13:31

<Mike M>

When testing a load that already has shown promise I shoot 2 fouling shots and a 3 three shot group 3 times, cleaning and cooling between each string.

When I want to see what the rifle will do as it warms and fouls I shoot 2 fouling shots and 10 to 15 rounds to target depending on the caliber and what the rifle will be used for.

14 June 2001, 15:42

Robert D. Lyons

I shoot 5 round groups.

15 June 2001, 00:32

crowrifle

Usually I shoot a fouling shot then three 3 shot groups when working up loads for rifles with light to medium weight barrels, allowing plenty of time for the barrel to cool. 5 shot groups for varmit rifles with bull barrels.

15 June 2001, 00:42

Terry Blauwkamp

If the barrel is "clean" I shoot 2 fouling shots, then after it cools down I shoot 4 shot groups.

Then I use the best 3 out of the 4 shots, I always seem to have a "flyer" in there, and the shooter is usually at fault.

Don't knock it until you have tried it.

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May I be half the man my dog thinks I am.

15 June 2001, 01:25

Hot Core

Hey John, I also like to use 3-shot groups during the initial Load development. After I determine where the SAFE MAX Powder level is for a specific weight of cases, the primer being used and the specific Lot of bullets, I then run another series of 3-shot groups varying the Seating Depth.

I next select the 3-4 best of those 3-shot groups and shoot a 9-shot group with each of them.

Normally that will determine for me what is the optimum Load. Then I run one more set of tests. This time I shoot nine "1-shot groups" into a single Target. By that, I mean each of those shots is from a clean, ambient temperature barrel. This best reflects what my Load's "potential" is for that "First Shot" on Game. And that is what is the most important to me.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

15 June 2001, 03:53

<BMG>

It depends on the rifle.

For a .22 - .338cal, I generally take 3 shots to foul the barrel and then shoot 5 shot groups. I then take the best 3 bullet, powder, primer combo and retest them against each other. Whichever comes out as the most accurate, that's my load.

For .35 - up, I shoot the same 3 fouling shots, but then shoot three shot groups. The only exception is the .50 BMG. I generally use 4 shot groups.

The way I figure it is that the smaller calibers are generally used for long range shooting at small targets and the larger bores (<.35) are for 200m or less, and often for around 50-100yds so 1/4" here or there isn't the end of the world.

15 June 2001, 04:42

<Whitespider>

I must have more time than most.
I shoot three shot groups untill I find a load with promise. Than I clean the bbl. and after a fouling shot I fire five. I repeat the five shot groups for five days, one group per day, and take the average. This tells me what the load does under differant conditions and lessens the effect of me just having a bad day at the bench. After that I start tweeking the load and firing 5 shot groups, one group per day for three days untill I have it just right or I give up on it and try something else.

20 June 2001, 12:48

<wader68>

I normaly shoot (2) Foul Shots and then (4) shots ifit shows promise with at least (3)shots I redo it and check it again.
Unlike Whitespider I don't have that much time...

20 June 2001, 13:16

smallfry

I shoot 4 one fouling shot and a 3 shot group. 5 shot group for varmit rigs and rim fires.

20 June 2001, 20:10

<holtz>

John,

Other than target or varmint rifles, I seen no logic in running groups of greater than three. How often does one need to place five or more "accurate" shots to bring down an animal?

Much has been said here regarding a fouled or clean barrel. Analyze your own habits and test accordingly. If you go into the field with a fouled barrel, then you should test with a fouled barrel, etc.

Personally, I go into the field with a cold clean barrel. I test accordingly and normally choose the group that places the first two shots top of each other, or as close as I can get them, with the third shot not too far off.

Steve

21 June 2001, 03:02

John Frazer

quote:
Originally posted by holtz:
John,
Other than target or varmint rifles, I seen no logic in running groups of greater than three. How often does one need to place five or more "accurate" shots to bring down an animal?

I would suggest it's the other way around.

I have to assume that I'm only going to get one shot at any given animal. Therefore, firing more shots when testing a load gives me greater statistical confidence that the load shoots consistently to the same point of aim.

(Otherwise, I could say that since I only fired one shot at my last elk, I really only need to fire one shot to zero, test ammo, etc. I could also do all this from a kneeling position at 40 yds. since that's what happened on the hunt.)

If I were going to get 5 or more shots, the accuracy of each shot would be less important.

The trade-off, of course, is that it takes more time and more components to shoot more shots in each group. Since I prefer to fire each group from a cool barrel, I also have to allow time for each rifle to cool between groups. (Even alternating between two rifles, this gives me some downtime on a hot day.)

I'm just trying to figure out where the break-even point is. Will probably go to 5 round groups at this point. (Which will also make a loading block full of prepped cases come out even.)

John