best lubricant for neck expander?

18 February 2003, 19:29

<Glenn R>

Every time I try to full length resize brass, the neck expander gets stuck. I have been using mica by dipping the neck and then inserting the neck over a nylon brush that spreads the mica. It doesn't work too well. I don't know if maybe I should use more of the mica or what? Someone at the range said they use STP as a lubricant.
Does anyone have any tips on how to improve this process? It is always the most difficult part for me.

18 February 2003, 19:36

boilerroom

I don't know the best but what works for me is just using the rcbs water soluble lube. No petro products. Just put a little on a q tip and smear her around a little.

What dies are you using ? and what round are you loading? Does this happen with more than one round?

I used to use lee paste that came in a tube a long time ago and it worked just fine also.

19 February 2003, 00:26

BossMoss

Try Hornady one shot lube It's as easy as it gets & I have never had a problum. You lube insid and outside in one quick shot wait 1 min. your ready to go.

19 February 2003, 01:52

ricciardelli

Quit fooling around and buy a $2 bottle of RCBS Case Lube...I've been using it since the early 1960's, and have NEVER had any problems with stuck cases or expander plugs.

19 February 2003, 02:01

Shootshell

Try the Lee brand lube applied with a Q-tip. It is not sticky, does not stink, and is cheap.

19 February 2003, 02:04

T/C nimrod

Graphite powder anyone? dispensed from a film container, applied by dipping neck brush into container, tapping excess off, and one swipe into neck. Haven't been using this as long as ricciardelli, but it's worked since the 70's for me.

19 February 2003, 02:38

Reed

I highly recommend the carbide expanders from Redding. Obviously they work on Redding dies but I even have one on a Lyman die too.

If you NK size like I do you don't even have to use lube. Adjust the die to size somewhere between 1/16 and 1/8 inch of the neck and if you do that you won't even need the carbide expander button in a lot of cases.

Good luck,

Reed

19 February 2003, 06:18

Swede44mag

Try the Bushing Style - Neck Sizing Dies. These Dies use Neck Sizing Bushings. The bushings are available coated with Titanium Nitride. The decapping rod can be used without a size button and will eliminate the use of case lube to neck size.

Hope this helps.

19 February 2003, 06:33

Pecos41

Boss Moss is right. Use the spray on instant lubes. I dump my cases in a cardboard box, spray them, shake the box vigorously and spray lightly again. Fiddle around getting ready for a minute to give the lube time to get ready and then size. It's instant, painless, and when I'm done resizing I just roll the cases in a soft cloth and finish reloading. Never a problem. Never a misfire. If it were any easier, the cases would size themselves for me. [Smile]

The gooey crap and Imperial Wax are from the dark ages.

19 February 2003, 09:50

kraky

I still like the rcbs style lube. But found a funny thing the other day that worked great with the eliptical expander on my hornady dies. My boy tossed out one of those new Armorall Wipes in the trash can next to my reloading table. I took a small nylon brush and did a one layer wrap of the Armorall Wipe and plunged them into the case necks and it worked perfectly. Don't know how well this would work with other dies as that hornady expander is "sweet"!!

19 February 2003, 10:37

<PaulS>

GlennR,
Reed has the best (MHO) cure for the problem of sticky neck expanders. I neck size only, and use a carbide die with a carbide expander ball. No lube required (it is actually harmful with carbide). If you don't wish to neck size you can still use the carbide expander in your die. If you decide to continue to use the equipment you already have, then find a lubricant that works for you (one that keeps friction down and cleans easily) and use it.

PaulS

19 February 2003, 12:31

Savage99

quote:
Originally posted by PaulS:
GlennR,
I neck size only, and use a carbide die with a carbide expander ball. No lube required (it is actually harmful with carbide).

PaulS

I worked in a deep draw house. We used lube (with coolant) on all dies and many were carbide.

I have carbide expanding buttons and I tried them without lube. There is less drag with lube.

Oil based lubes provide a full film separation of the button and case neck. They must have an EP additive also.

19 February 2003, 12:41

Hammer47

Don't put the cart before the horse. 2 things to keep in mind. First is to brush clean the necks to remove powder residue and the second is to put a fine polish on the expander ball. Lube is pretty much lube. Regards

19 February 2003, 15:03

<Glenn R>

The dies are Hornady and the caliber is 308 although I have had the same problem with Hornady 50BMG.

Is this mica powder a waste of time? This is what it is supposidly sold for but it doesn't seem to work too well for me. [Frown]

I had some of the Hornady spray which worked OK but the pressure left the can prematurely so I had to throw it away. [Roll Eyes]

I have this little set of brushes that I think Midway sells. They are nylon instead of brass and attach to the table in a small holder. Is this the best for cleaning the powder residue from the cases?

I generally tumble the brass before depriming. Is this sufficient to remove the residue or is it necessary to also brush it? [Confused]

It seems that the expander gets struck under the lip of the neck and I'm not sure if the brush touches that spot.

I took the die apart and polished the ball. Thanks for that tip!! [Big Grin]

26 February 2003, 14:57

rickt300

I put a piece of Armorall wipe on a brass brush and cleaned the inside of my 7x57 necks with it and perfection, no drag. This cartridge and the 6mm remington always have heavy drag on the expander ball and this makes it easy. Thanks for the tip Kraky.

26 February 2003, 16:29

grizz

I must be old fashioned, I still use bonanza case lube oil on a foam RCBS pad. Then I use a nylon RCBS brush in the green plastic handle, roll it on the pad, run it into the neck prior to sizing. Little or no drag. Now before you start that it is going to contamidate to powder, there's so little oil on the brush you can't feel it.

27 February 2003, 06:11

rickt300

I.ve done that too but never liked the powder grains sticking to the inside of the case necks. Whatever is on the Armorall wipes leaves the inside of the case necks non sticky.

27 February 2003, 06:20

<Reloader66>

Imperial powdered graphite is the answer, been using it for years. Easy quick and won't contaminate the powder charge.

27 February 2003, 10:37

reedg

Reed has it almost right. Whenever possible, neck size only, but forget lube and sizing buttons and sliding gizmos, just use a Lee Collet Die for a perfect resize every time. No working of the brass by sliding it into the sizing portion of the die and no yanking it back down over a sizing button, regardless of what it's made of. If gooey crap and sizing wax are from the Dark Ages, so are sizing buttons and sizing bushings.

When a full-length resize is necessary, I find the Lee resizing gunk in the tube works great.

Ain't it wonderful there isn't just one way to do things?

28 February 2003, 15:52

Clark

My lube resume:

1997 the RCBS lube, glycerin

1999 Imperial Die Wax

2002 just neck sizing with either the Lee Collet die or with standard die partial neck sizing with no expander ball.

28 February 2003, 19:39

hunter_fish

I have determined with personal tests that by taking apart dies and cleaning completely and then spraying brass with a good dose of Hornady One Shot case lube spray, works the quickest and is effective. If you use the correct angle it will get the inside of the necks too.

[ 02-28-2003, 10:44: Message edited by: hunter_fish ]

01 March 2003, 03:40

Hot Core

quote:
Originally posted by Glenn R:
1. Is this mica powder a waste of time? This is what it is supposidly sold for but it doesn't seem to work too well for me.

2. I have this little set of brushes that I think Midway sells. They are nylon instead of brass and attach to the table in a small holder. Is this the best for cleaning the powder residue from the cases?

3. I generally tumble the brass before depriming. Is this sufficient to remove the residue or is it necessary to also brush it?

4. It seems that the expander gets struck under the lip of the neck and I'm not sure if the brush touches that spot.

Hey Glenn,

1. Yes, Mica as an Inside Neck Lube is a total fiasco. Abandon it.

2. If the Powder Residue is a concern, you can put a worn out 22cal brass brush wrapped in "0000SteelWool" in a handle(not a motorized tool) and give it a twist or two. The SteelWool will also wrap around the outside of the caseneck and allow you to remove the residue there as well. If you go with a 30cal brush, it will be too aggressive and you will probably end up reducing the caseneck thickness by actually removing case brass and scratch the surface.

An additional benefit of using the 0000SteelWool is that it Totally Removes any scratches on the inner casemouth Chamfer. And that keeps those scratches from scaring the Base or sides of the Bullet. This does make a difference if you are seriously interested in accuracy.

3. Depending on the Powder, it can be nearly impossible to remove with a Nylon brush or Tumbling alone.

4. If the Nylon Brush is snug going in the casemouth, it will "snap out" once it goes past the "inside" of the caseneck. Then as you pull the Nylon Brush back out, it will deposit a slight bit of Lube on that inner edge of the shoulder/caseneck junction. Just reload the brush on your Lube Pad every 10 cases or so.

For what it is worth, I re-tumble my cases after Partial Full Length Resizing just to remove the Lube - inside and out. Works fine.

[ 02-28-2003, 18:46: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

01 March 2003, 06:32

Evad27

I chucked the expander ball in drill and polished it with 150 grit sand paper and brush necks with nylon brush. Not sure but I think I read this on Sierra's X-ring.

05 March 2003, 10:09

Deke

Graphite for all of the previously posted reasons for graphite.

Deke.

06 March 2003, 01:39

<Kentucky Fisherman>

quote:
Originally posted by Glenn R:
It seems that the expander gets struck under the lip of the neck and I'm not sure if the brush touches that spot.

Glenn, I'm wondering if this one little clue isn't perhaps the most important thing you mentioned. Unless your expander ball is just horribly rough, which doesn't occur all that often, then I'm wondering if maybe you haven't built up a "doughnut" inside your brass right where the shoulder and the neck meet. It sounds like that's the spot you're describing.

I haven't experienced these brass doughnuts to any great degree, but I think perhaps they are peculiar to particular calibers and perhaps happen more with certain individual rifles. It might be worth your while to take a hacksaw and section a few pieces of your problem brass right down the middle lengthwise to look for such doughnuts. If they exist, then all the lube and cleaning in the world aren't going to solve your problem. As for how to deal with the doughnuts, that's a separate question you may or may not need to pursue.

07 March 2003, 04:55

<eldeguello>

I do the same as boilerroom. It works OK.

07 March 2003, 05:54

JerryM

I have never seen the Lee Collet die. From the posts I have the impression that it does not expand the neck. Is this true?

Also Clark, if you do not use an expander ball it would seem that the neck is enough undersize that the bullet would shave or even deform the case mouth. Evidently you do not experience this or you would not do it. Is there anything different about your dies?

Jerry