Been a bit since I've posted...
New job and a new city to live in, had a pretty full plate last few months.
I have come across some interesting stuff..
First the big one.
While at the last ABQ gun show, I found a 120 howitzer shell. Pics below.
Dated march 1954 !!
excellent condition, for $60 I could NOT pass that up.
Also found out it's not for a howitzer exactly it's for the T123 heavy tank, used in the early-mid 50's
Their can't be many of these pieces floating around.

Also the small:
In sorting 38 spl I found a large primer 38 spl
made by Peters. when did Peters make ammo?
Large primer 38? That must have been a fairly hot load.
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The gun may have been the T123, but it was for the M103 Heavy Tank, which was fielded to counter the Soviet heavy tanks, like the T10. An M103 sets in front of the Euclid, Ohio Public Library. It basically looks like an early M60. Do a search and you will see pics and a history.

Nice find, btw.

Yes, the M103 was our attempt at a heavy tank; a concept that never worked well. The Army did not like them so gave them to the Marines, whose doctrine at that time typically used tanks as Infantry support rather than for tank on tank battle. So a clunky slow tank was ok for that use. Also, the M103 used a separated loading round, meaning the projectile was not attached to the cartridge case, and was loaded separately like a 155 howitzer. The current 120mm M256 Cannon used on M1A1 and A2 tanks uses a one piece, combustible, round fired from a smooth bore barrel. There is also an M103 here on display on Credit Island. Peters made ammo from very early 20th century to the 1960s, but after 1934 it was made by Remington and marked Peters That is why even current Remington brass is marked R-P.

This shell dated early 1954 makes it a prototype before the M103 debuted.
Cool info, But what I really want to know.
Does Dillon make dies for this?
and do you think a 50bmg powder will work?



D

Chrysler build at least 300 T43s (T is for "test") in 1953, before it was type classified the M103. So the cannon was designed and the ammo built before that. Anyway, it was a bad idea all the way around, as far as tank design goes. Although we have a 70 ton tank now, it is not a "heavy"tank. It is a "main battle" tank. The turbine engine makes a lot of difference in mobility. No, 50 BMG powder will not work. I used to manage tank ammo production but I forgot the powder type; it used some very large grains. The current 120mms use sticks of propellant and a combustible case.

Also, it's good to remember that anything, excluding shotguns and shotshells, with a bore larger than .500 or designed to be fired from a bore larger than .500 counts as a "Destructive Device" under the National Firearms Act of 1934. Basically, as a non-military entity, it is illegal for you to own that case as a live round (but empty it is fine).

quote:

Also, it's good to remember that anything, excluding shotguns and shotshells, with a bore larger than .500 or designed to be fired from a bore larger than .500 counts as a "Destructive Device" under the National Firearms Act of 1934.

I wonder how all those Solothurn owners get-by?

quote:

Originally posted by danev2:
Cool info, But what I really want to know.
Does Dillon make dies for this?
and do you think a 50bmg powder will work?



D

CH/4D will make them. I took a factory tour a couple years ago and looked at what was on their shelves. The 25mm Bushmaster FL resizing die was impressive.

Unfortunately, I don't know anyone outside a foundry who has a press big enough.

quote:

Originally posted by Kevin Rohrer:
I wonder how all those Solothurn owners get-by?

It is possible to get a licence from BATFE, it's either the same as or as hard to acquire as the one that allows you to own full auto weapons. I just assumed that dannev doesn't have one because he found the shell at a gun show.

quote:

It is possible to get a licence from BATFE, it's either the same as or as hard to acquire as the one that allows you to own full auto weapons.

Yeah, that's one way...

Just to cover my A$$ I was being sarcastic.
I'd need the gun to shoot it first anyway.
anyone know of a M103 or a t43 for sale?
a project tank is OK.
I can do a engine or trans rebuild

I've been told it's not really that hard to get a class 7? Destruc Dev permit.
just money. background check, and time. lots of all three

D