16/65 shotgun reloading data?

28 October 2002, 23:39

<'Trapper'>

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
Hi,
Can anyone please help me with reloading data for cal. 16/65..? Or 16/67,5 or 16/70..?
Or perhaps procedure for how to develop my own data.

Anders: Went to your homepage and as I can't read Norsk I didn't learn much. Nice photos, and I assume from them you have no small amount of experience.
I use and load for the 16ga but here in the States virtully everything is the 2 3/4" hull and I assume this would be the 16/70mm version with the 16/65mm being the 2 9/16" (obsolete here) and the 16/67.5mm I'm not sure of.
First off, I like the combo wads with the shot cup and the selection here is limited. I don't know what you may have available. If you will email back or post a list of components you have or can obtain I will do my best to find some data for you. BTW, what are you intending to load for, light loads, field loads or perhaps "magnum" waterfowl loads? This and any other info you might offer will help with finding the data you are after.
"Shoot straight, shoot safe and shoot a lot!"
Best regards,

29 October 2002, 03:24

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
Or perhaps procedure for how to develop my own data.

With shotshells, the main difference between various lengths of shells is the length of the wad column and the sealing characteristics of the wad you are using. Winchester AA wads, for example, typically use the least amount of powder for a given load as those wads seem to seal very well.

So, in developing loads yourself, if you take a published load for the given gauge, hull type, shot weight, powder, and primer that you are using, and that uses a wad (for one-piece plastic wads) or wad column (for multiple-piece non-plastic wads) that is very much like the one you are using (regardless of the length of the wad or wad column) you are likely to get results that are very close to what you want. Also, if you pick a load from a loading manual that has a lower published pressure as your model, that will give you some additional leeway, meaning that the load you produce, even if higher in pressure, will still be more likely to be within safe pressure range.

Shotshell reloading seems to be considerably more tolerant of differences than rifle cartridge loading as the pressures in shotshells are much lower. This is especially true if you are loading low power target loads.

29 October 2002, 22:23

Anders

Thank you both! A lot of information.
Trapper:
I haven`t bought any equipment and I have no experience on shotgun reloading yet, so I actually don`t know.. But my reloading store told me they could get me all I needed. I have thought of bying RCBS dies for my Rockchucker.
I`ll try to get some information about what I can get and post it tomorrow or so..
BTW: My 16 gauge shotgun is an old Browning (automatic) and I have to reload the shells with roller crimp. I`m not sure what it`s called but on "normal" shells you end it with a "star" in front.. I can`t do that because it will then expand in lenght and cause problems when the shell is rejected.. So I have to use a small "paper-plate" in front..
Hope you understand me even if my language is not so good..! [Smile]

29 October 2002, 23:52

<'Trapper'>

Anders:
I am relatively sure you have the Browning with the 2 9/16" Chamber. I have one that my Father purchased new in 1930 and it too had the short chamber but it was opened out to 2 3/4" many years ago. Relatively simple to do this, mine was done by a gunsmith in St Louis. I have no idea what the charge would be.
As for the roll crimp, you should be able to use either roll crimp or star crimp provided the shell hull is the correct length. Some reloaders will allow you to adjust for the completed length overall and some won't. I don't know if you can buy them in Sweden but Occasionally I see some British loads for sale that are 2 1/2" and these should work in your gun.If you will advise what types of shotgun powder and what wads you can obtain I will try and come up with some loadings for you to start with.
"Shoot straight, shoot safe and shoot a lot!"
Regards,

30 October 2002, 14:17

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
My 16 gauge shotgun is an old Browning (automatic) and I have to reload the shells with roller crimp. I`m not sure what it`s called but on "normal" shells you end it with a "star" in front.. I can`t do that because it will then expand in lenght and cause problems when the shell is rejected.. So I have to use a small "paper-plate" in front..
Hope you understand me even if my language is not so good..!

I understand exactly what you are saying!

One solution would be to have a gunsmith alter your gun to use a longer shell by lengthening the chamber and doing whatever else is necessary to get the mechanism to function properly with the longer hulls; you could then use regular star-crimped shells. But doing so may be difficult and/or lower the value of your gun if you ever wish to sell it. Another possibility would be to trade that gun or retire it, and get a newer one that accepts the longer shells in present-day use.

Finding loading equipment and supplies to make the old-time rolled crimp over a top wad, such as you describe, may be difficult. I haven't seen that kind of shell for a very long time -- possibly as long as 40 years ago or more. I think that the process of loading those shells will also take considerably longer than loading today's shells.

01 November 2002, 01:44

Anders

Trapper:
I have the possibility to purchase plastic wads from Winchester (AA), Remington and Federal. In weights around 28 grams I think. I can also get some "cotton"-wads. Powder availabel is Vihtavouri and possibly Hodgon.
I have thought of opening it to the 2 3/4 version but I`m not sure. Since I got it from my grandfather I want to keep it orginal too (Like you said Lee270).
Hope this can help, you to help me.. [Smile]

Thank you both for your information so far!

01 November 2002, 13:40

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
I have the possibility to purchase plastic wads from Winchester (AA), Remington and Federal.

Those are all excellent wads, but they are made in a length to fit properly in the 2 3/4inch, star crimped shells. I don't know whether they will work in the shorter hulls that you need for your gun -- these wads may be too long for your purposes. If you want to try them, I suggest that you choose a powder that occupies a minimum of physical space for the charge you will be using. In 12 gauge, to use two possible powders as examples, Hodgdon Titewad powder occupies considerably less space for a given charge than does Alliant Red Dot.

I don't know about 16 gauge -- I've loaded 12, 20, and 28 gauges and .410. In 12 gauge, the Federal wads are slightly longer than the Winchester and Remington ones because the inner dimension of the Federal Gold Medal hulls is slightly longer than the Winchester and Remington hulls. The Winchester and Remington target hulls and target wads can be treated as interchangeable, but the Federal hull is a bit different, requiring its own Federal wad for best results.

[ 11-01-2002, 05:15: Message edited by: LE270 ]

02 November 2002, 00:55

<'Trapper'>

Anders, I am out of the country for the next week. When I return I will dig out some of the old data that I have and I am sure we can work up some loads for the 16 that will allow you to load and shoot the "short" shells in your A-5 Browning. I wonder if you can buy roll crimp paper hulls where you are - the last ones I saw for sale were loaded in the UK and were actually 2 1/2" which should work well in your gun. Also, Lyman used to make a roll crimper that was used in a drill press and was very cheap - under $10 as I recall but I don't know if one is still available.
Anyway, we will work on your problem. As to opening out your gun to 2 3/4" I don't know what this would do to the collector value. As I remarked, mine has been modified but was done long ago. I have willed the gun to my grandson so he will be using it when he becomes old enough. Just very difficult to think of the old gun being out of the family and very satisfying to pass it down to him as it was passed down to me.
"Shoot straight, shoot safe and shoot a lot!"
Regards,
Ted

02 November 2002, 02:53

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by 'Trapper':
Lyman used to make a roll crimper that was used in a drill press and was very cheap - under $10 as I recall but I don't know if one is still available.

If you decide to go this way, I suspect that you will do better to try to find some used tool(s) that have now been put aside by someone who is no longer using them.

One other possibility has occurred to me. If you don't want to open up the chamber of your gun because that will affect its value to you, what about the possibility of replacing the barrel with a newer one with the longer chamber? That way you could keep the old barrel so that you could restore the gun to its original status when you wish to do so, but you could also use the newer barrel for shooting.

04 November 2002, 23:07

Anders

I have the possibility of bying Sellier-Bellott 2 9/16" paper shells. And the Lyman roller crimp drill press tool. But they told me the die-set from RCBS would do it all (a fancy set with a lot of different tools [Smile]

.
I haven`t actually thought of replacing the barrel. That was a good idea, but wouldn`t that be pretty expensive..?
Regarding rechambering it`s not a bad idea either. I`m actually not interested in gun-collecting.. I want guns that I can use, not ones to be stored in my gun-rack. But I will definitivly try some reloading first! If this will be to "problematic" I`ll consider the rechambering.

Another question:
what do you think about shortening the barrel a bit? It`s 74cm long (over 29") with full "choke". I have actually thought of shortening it to 68-70cm and opening it to 1/4 or 1/2.. Can you predict what this will do to the balance..?
On the other hand, this will also ruin the value of its originality..

05 November 2002, 03:39

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
what do you think about shortening the barrel a bit? It`s 74cm long (over 29") with full "choke". I have actually thought of shortening it to 68-70cm and opening it to 1/4 or 1/2..

Personally, I prefer a 26 inch barrel on an autoloader or pump shotgun. I think that the shorter barrel length handles better than the longer barrel on such guns. On a double -- SxS or O/U -- I like the longer 28 inch barrels. Note that a 26 inch barrel on autoloader or pump and 28 inch barrels on a double tends to make the overall length of the guns approximately the same, as the autoloader or pump has the loading mechanism behind the barrel, whereas the double has no such mechanism behind the barrel.

The choke you need depends on what you shoot. If you hunt waterfowl at long ranges, you will probably want a full choke. For some clay shooting, such as trap, you may also want a full or improved modified choke. If you shoot skeet you will want very little choke -- almost a cylinder, which is basically none at all. If you do upland bird and small animal hunting (rabbits) an improved cylinder may be best. A modified choke may be the best compromise if you want to do everything with one gun.

I think a skilled and knowledgable gunsmith could shorten and re-choke your barrel to whatever choke you want.

05 November 2002, 03:46

LE270

quote:
Originally posted by Anders:
I haven`t actually thought of replacing the barrel. That was a good idea, but wouldn`t that be pretty expensive..?

I'm not familiar enough with the shotgun you have to know. On some shotguns -- e.g. Remington 11-87 autoloaders and 870 pumps -- barrel replacement is extremely easy, as the barrel simply slides out of the breech when the screw that holds it in place is taken off. For such guns, replacement barrels are not especially expensive (maybe about $100) and are commonly supplied and used -- for example, a shooter may have one barrel for skeet, another for waterfowl, and a third for shooting slugs at deer.