Lil Gun in the 41mag, your experience?

28 August 2003, 04:36

R Flowers

For whatever reason, Lil Gun worked a whole lot better in my .44 Rem Mag than in my .41 Rem Mag.

I tested both in Ruger single action guns and while the .44 Magnum liked Lil Gun as well as anything I tested, the .41 much prefered the old standby 2400 powder.

It may be because of the barrel lengths, the .44 Mag had a 10.5 inch barrel, while the .41 Mag is a 4 and 5/8 inch model.

In the long barreled 44 Mag I tried 2400, Blue Dot, H 4227, H 110, etc. but the darned Lil Gun did the best.

In the 41 Mag I tried Blue Dot, 2400, H110, Lil Gun, Unique, etc. but the 2400 was the standout for velocity AND accuracy. (Even if the muzzle blast was a little more ferocious.)

R F

29 August 2003, 09:04

False Muzzle

I have not tried that powder yet. But I've heard a lot of good things about it. My favorite, and most accurate loads are done with WC 820. Both my 4and5/8", and 6" guns like it (Ruger single actions). If you can get some of that...you may be in for a pleasent suprise.
b

29 August 2003, 09:32

Clark

LIL'GUN makes much higher velocities in 158 gr 357 mag than H110 at the same pressure, but does not smell as good as H110.

29 August 2003, 10:41

Hobie

You've heard it before, see it again in my post(s) elsewhere re: 22.5 gr. L'ilGun in the .41 Mag with Hornady 210 gr. XTP. This is a good load for the cartridge in my gun. Produces top or close to top velocities for the bullet. MUCH better than H110. Less stress on the gun due to lower pressures than H110.

Look, I've used 4 lbs of the stuff in the last year. Not a great deal according to some but a lot to me (as I have tons of ammo already loaded and was mostly developing loads for new guns/barrels). It really surprised me.

29 August 2003, 11:22

Magnum Mike

Hobie,

The data listed in hornady's manual shows 22.2 going SLOWER than H110!! [Confused]

I will do a load ramp and compare it to me ole stand by of 21.0 of H110....

Thanks for the info guys.... [Wink]

30 August 2003, 08:58

Hobie

Mike,

I don't have the manual in front of me and I don't know which you are using, but it must be recent. What I remember is this:

I got the .41.
I needed a load.
I looked at all the loads, particularly the heavier bullets.
I posted on lists (like this one) with little response.
I got the new Hogdon's manual and noticed L'il Gun did more with less pressure.
I tried both and...
L'ilGun did more and safely.
I now use the L'ilGun.

Now, you've got me wondering, as I sit here at "work", whether or not I read the manual right and why it works. I guess when I go home tonight I'll check it out and then get on here and fess up if I was wrong. Still, the actual results have borne out what I thought would happen.
I don't have a burn rate list with L'ilGun included but I think it is just a bit slower than H110/W296 and I think that in my 16ï¿½" barrel, this works.

30 August 2003, 11:20

Magnum Mike

Here is the Hornady data i have as well as the Hodgdon.

Hornady is the only one that i have ever seen list data that high with H110 or W296. Hodgdon's data seems a lil more realistic but i will try a load ramp to 22.2 per Hornady.....

30 August 2003, 12:42

Hobie

Mike,

I promised it and here's the info:

Hogdon's Annual Manual.
September 24, 2002 (only date I can find...)
page 129, left column, bottom
.41 Remington Magnum
10.125" barrel, 1:18.75" twist, trim 1.280", Winchester LP
Bullet: 210 GR. HDY XTP
H110 19.8-1465-25,600 CUP to 22.0-1631-36,400 CUP
LIL'GUN 20.5-1505-23,500 CUP to 22.5-1626-29,900 CUP

I was struck by the much lower pressure for very similar or better (in the case of the starting charge as it turns out) performance. For me, the performance is wonderful compared straight against H110. I still can't find my notes, but will post as soon as I do.

What is the date on your manual?

Maybe somebody else would like to explain why they didn't go to 36,000 CUP with Lil'Gun, but I don't care. It provides the velocity I wanted at less pressure than H110. Further, it shoots better out of my barrel.

If you want, I'll scan the page and post the pic. However, there's not a date on this thing that I can find except on Tom Shepherd's foreword. That's the date I cite. I think that this was pre-recall. IAC, the data isn't even a year old in the field and it does work, still.

[ 08-30-2003, 03:54: Message edited by: Hobie ]

30 August 2003, 15:21

Magnum Mike

quote:
Originally posted by Hobie:
What is the date on your manual?

I just downloaded that data (the Hodgdon) off the net the other nite when i bought the can of powder....

quote:
Originally posted by Hobie:
If you want, I'll scan the page and post the pic.

If you wouldnt mind scannin it and emailing it to me, i would GREATLY appreciate it! [Big Grin]

I DO appreciate all the info you have given me on these 2 threads!

31 August 2003, 03:26

Hobie

Mike,

It will be late Tuesday morning before I get that out. The wife wants to go out of town tomorrow and I'm working [Eek!]

today.

Generally speaking, I've noticed a lot of data is not posted to the web. I'm not exactly sure why as it seems it would be far easier to convert or cut and paste the actual data to an HTML file, but that's apparently not what they do, perhaps to maintain value in the printed product.

I asked about date because that data is over 2 years old, identical to the same page I printed out then. The printed manual apparently is newer.

Wish I could find my notes.

03 September 2003, 06:25

Hobie

Mike,

Here's a scan of the data from the 2002 Annual Manual by Hogdon.

I should note that the situation reverses itself when you look at the .44 Rem Mag data. H110 has an edge with both 240 gr. and 300 gr. bullets. Lil'Gun data is not shown for the .357 Max or Mag.

Good shooting.

03 September 2003, 09:30

T/C nimrod

Lil'Gun w/the 210 grn. XTP wasn't anything worth talking about in Project 41. Higher velocities, yes. Consistency, not really. H110 and Lil'Gun are on the same plate in my notes - Ok, but not keepers. Still partial to Unique, but haven't done any expansion testing yet.

Clarification: these two powders aren't "keepers" for me for the fact(s) that they will only print 1.5"/5 shot groups at 100 yards. This is fine performance for a hunting load, but not what I'm after. The additional powder usage for an increased velocity isn't worth my time and/or money. For anothers goals it may be just what the doctor ordered.

03 September 2003, 09:45

Hobie

quote:
Originally posted by T/C nimrod:
...For anothers goals it may be just what the doctor ordered.

Yep, that's right, and self-evident.

To my mind Unique is excellent for "mid-range" loads of about 1000 fps, probably with cast lead projectiles. There's a use for those too, but not for me.

I always try to use the powder that generates the lowest pressure with top velocities. I think it wears the gun less. In any case it makes me feel better. [Wink]

03 September 2003, 09:54

T/C nimrod

quote:
To my mind Unique is excellent for "mid-range" loads of about 1000 fps, probably with cast lead projectiles. There's a use for those too, but not for me.

Actually 1300-1450 with the 210 XTP.(Depending on grain charge and/or primer choice)

03 September 2003, 14:12

Hobie

Instead of 1600+. Yep almost a "mid-range" load. I still need to get back to the range to confirm, but I'd swear they went over 1800 out of the 16". That's what I want.

When I get some lead, I'll load 2.5 gr. Unique, +/-, to poot the bullets out just fast enough to be useful for head shooting rabbits, squirrels, etc.

Sorry my results and level of satisfaction don't square up with you. Funny thing about this shooting business, every gun is different and so's every shooter. Me, I was just tryin' to help "old" Mike out some.

04 September 2003, 00:40

T/C nimrod

Hobie - just got back on this morning, and feel I need to respond to your last thread. Please don't think I'm comparing your procedures with my own - I use the information as a technical end only. I don't like to say "my way is better then yours" - everybody is different, and I'm usually rowing my own boat. Thanks for sharing your information, and talking end results.

04 September 2003, 01:51

Hobie

One thing I haven't mentioned before, and again without my notes on it I can't speak to specifics, but I believe that Lil'Gun is less temperature sensitive than H110/W296. Not a real big deal in VA (although noticeable), it might be a big deal elsewhere...