.45-70 Handi Rifle load??

10 August 2004, 07:24

I want to work up a level 2 load of ~1500-1600fps with the 500gr hornady RNSP for my NEF SB2 Handi Rifle.
FWIW, Buffalo Bore offers a 500gr jacketed bullet cartridge with a MV of 1625fps, according to their website, which is suitable for use in a handi rifle. I'm aware of the recoil factor, it's not an issue for me, I just like big bullets. I've got a few recommendations so far, just wondering if anyone has any thoughts or experience to share. thanks

http://www.buffalobore.com/ammunition/default.htm#4570

10 August 2004, 15:26

steveno

try 18 grains of Unique and a 300 grain hp. I think you will like it a lot more than a 500 grain bullet at 1625 fps.

10 August 2004, 15:54

wrongtarget

I have several loads for the "little" bullets that are moa accurate in the handi rifle, just want to try these big boys to see what can be done. I also have another motive for working up this load....got some friends interested in this load for a private bison hunt with their handi rifles so I'm gonna be the ginea pig!

10 August 2004, 14:48

wrongtarget

Not after I finish with my mods! I have the laminated stock set for it with a limbsaver recoil pad and the stock screw opening filled with lead or lead shot. I have a past magnum recoil shoulder pad and can shoot from a standing bench. If that's not enough, then it's 350gn RN or 330grLHP......

I figure if I can handle my 835 ultimag with 3.5", 2.25 oz turkey loads, whats a little 500gr load gonna do!

10 August 2004, 14:03

steveno

I think that this 500 grain bullet at 1625 fpa out of a handirifle is going to hurt a lot. it hurts even thinking about it

11 August 2004, 01:19

jeffeosso

Send me an EMAIL offline, and I'll run you the quickload for this, if you request those results, for INFORMATIONAL purposes only.

IMHO, the handirifle is AT LEAST as strong as the whippy contender....

jeffe

11 August 2004, 05:37

steveno

saying that the handirifle is as strong as a contender isn't necessarily a strong point. I have had a contender for close to 25 years and there are definitely some calibers that it shouldn't have been chambered in becuase of them opening up under recoil. A friend of mine shot some 420 grain(?) Buffalo Bore ammo in a Marlin guide gun and he didn't think that was a very smart move because ut really hurt. the 45-70 is a great cartdrige and really doesn't have to be loaded up very hot to be a good killer

11 August 2004, 10:18

Jason22

I have loaded 500 grains up too 1700 fps...its no fun in the handi rifle.

The loads I tried where both with IMR-4064 Remington brass and Winchester primers

first load was 50 grains for chrono 1563 fps
2nd load was 55 grains for chrono 1702 fps

If you use these loads work up slow

hope this helps

Jason

11 August 2004, 11:38

wrongtarget

Jason, that 50gr load sounds about right, how was the accuracy? What specific bullet were you using and what was the COAL?

Thanks,

Tim

11 August 2004, 15:43

wrongtarget

Wow, 2.90"!! I was thinking the handi .45-70 had a short throat from what I had read, that's good news, thanks! I hear ya on the recoil, I suspect I might change my mind about the big bullets even with all my "precautions". I have a box of 350 RN that are my go-to bullets if this doesn't work out, but I need to try, anyway.

..thanks

11 August 2004, 15:26

Jason22

Wrongtarget

2.90 was the COL. with Hornady 500 grains SP. I didnt really shoot them for accuracy. Just put the target out to about 25 yards so that I could shoot over the chrono. After shooting 5 of each..the 50 grain and the 55 grain. I really didnt feel like shooting off a bench @ 100 yards. My shoulder was hurt enough.

When it gets cooler here in Arizona I will let you know. that means I will be shooting with a Jacket on.

less pain.

11 August 2004, 16:58

wrongtarget

Wow, pretty impressive! Holding the rifle in your hands is a good way to keep the auto ejected brass from making a forehead score!!

Thanks, Clark!!

11 August 2004, 16:46

Clark

Quote:

I think the load you are looking for is a bit much for your rifle as it isn't the strongest action in the world.

That's because I have proven that MY 45/70 handi rifle IS the strongest action in the world.

Here is my test data for my 45/70 Handi rifle with 405 gr hard cast and Unique:

45/70 work up with; 405 gr cast with lube bands, CCI 200 primers, Win brass, old Unique [dirty] powder, chamber well lubricated between

firings with CLP for max bolt thrust.

Quickload calculation of pressure and velocity with 405 gr, Unique

shot 0) 15 gr, 24,700 psi, 1271 fps, no shot fired, listed for Quickload reference point only

shot 1) 18 gr, 33,217psi, 1403 fps, primer looks fine.

shot 2) 20 gr, 39,435 psi, 1485 fps, primer is fine

shot 3) 22 gr, 46,133 psi, 1563 fps, primer looks flat.

shot 4) 24 gr, 53,334 psi, 1637 fps, primer is flat.

shot 5) 26 gr, 61,067 psi, 1709 fps, primer is top hat and flowing,

action popped open and case ejected on firing

shot 6) 28 gr, 69,366 psi, 1778 fps, primer is top hat and flowing, case head expansion .001", action popped open and case ejected on firing

shot 7) 30 gr, 78275 psi, 1846 fsp, case head expansion .0015" action popped open and case ejected on firing, some leading in the muzzle.

shot 8) 32 gr, 87,841 psi, 1911 fps, case head expansion .0025", case head separating where case head is flowing into the extractor, action popped open, some leading in the muzzle, and case ejected on firing, primer is spreading out .010"

There was no change in headspace, but I had to stop the work up because of case head separation where the case head flowed into the extractor.

Reference loads:

1) "Loads for the 45/70" from the H.P.White laboratory via "American

Rifleman" 1950~1968 via "NRA Handloader's Guide" 1969 says:

405 gr Rem S.P., 17.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 25,240 pounds pressure, for 1886 Win

2) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:

400 gr cast, 16.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 27,000 cup, for 1886 Win

3) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:

385 cast gr cast, 17.5 gr Unique, 1411 fps, 38,500 cup, for Ruger #1

Here is a picture of what the primers looked like from right to left.

Picture of the brass, shot 0), shot 8), shot 7)...

And no it was not against my shoulder, or it would have broken my collar bone. It was in my hands. My left hand was on the butt and my right on the trigger. I absorbed the recoil over a stopping distance of 3 feet. The peak force on my left palm was very low.

The reason I knew that it would be ok was the stress analysis I did. It is made of thick steel. Even assuming a low yield steel, it is still much stronger than a 454 Ruger revolver, which is made from the best steel.

14 August 2004, 05:38

wrongtarget

Steveno, your apprehension about expansion of the big 500gr bullet was right on, got this reply from hornady concerning my goal of 1500-1600fps mv. Guess I won't be working this load up. Thanks

Quote:

No! I would not recommend the Hornady #4504 .45 cal. (.458" dia.) 500 gr. RN bullet to be loaded in the .45-70 Gov't. case. The reason is that the bullet has a very heavy jacket and the muzzle velocity that is generated from the .45-70 Gov't. case will not expand the very heavy jacketed 500 gr. RN bullet. I would highly recommend the
Hornady #4502 .45 cal. (.458" dia.) 350 gr. RN bullet or the #4503 .45 cal. (.458" dia.) 350 gr. FP bullet for elk hunting. You will achieve better bullet expansion with either one of the 350 gr. bullets over the 500 gr. bullet.

The best to you in reloading, shooting, & hunting!
Lonnie Hummel