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any advice or help

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23 September 2001, 11:41
<jrpilot>
any advice or help
Well today I thought that I would try to reload some nickel 7mm brass that I have at the house. I have been nervous about doing this cause many people say that the nickel is so hard that it can scratch the dies. The dies that I used were Lee so I thought that I would try it at least they were not Redding or something. Well I lubed them properly and as I pulled the case into the die I could feel scrapping. When I pulled the case out there was metal shaving on the case. Then I looked at the die and saw that there were scratch marks on the expander. The case were not even expanded enough to run the trim pilot through.

Does any one have any advice or has anyone ever had this happen to them.

Any remarks would be very helpful. And thanks in advance.

23 September 2001, 11:51
<jrpilot>
I just went and measured the expander and it was at .281 . There are scratches on the whole thing, that I can feel with my fingers.
24 September 2001, 03:05
<Don G>
Any chance you had sand or grit on/in the case? I have reloaded WW nickel 300 winmags for my brother with no problems.

I'm puzzled. Try polishing the expander and claning the die with copper solevent, and try it again with a brass case first.

Don

24 September 2001, 04:38
<1LoneWolf>
I have reloaded a considerable amount of plated brass with no problem.

The only thing I can think of here is that perhaps you didn't clean the dies before putting them into service and possibly there was a gritty substance on them from the factory.

I wouldn't say, I have ever run in to that problem exactly, but I have had dies from RCBS and Redding that truly needed to be cleaned before using. But not to the degree, that you seem to be encountering.

Good luck, and call the die maker, they'll point you in the right direction.

Good advice from someone before me, about trying standard brass and polishing the expander.

But positively, you should clean your new dies, coming out of the box before use. Just like you clean a new rifle.

------------------
Live Free! Madison, Jefferson and all the boys paid for it, and so did our very own fathers.

[This message has been edited by 1LoneWolf (edited 09-23-2001).]

24 September 2001, 07:11
Ray, Alaska
I have never had that problem. I prefer nickel-plated brass to plain brass. But I always clean the inside of the cases with a soft nylon brush before I decap and size them. I also wipe the outside of the cases with a clean rag before I apply lubricant.

Brass that have fallen on the ground usually contain dirt, sand, and other materials that can scratch the dies. It is not a bad idea to clean the dies after use, and then covering them with a laundry bag to keep dust out. That way they will be ready for the next time.

24 September 2001, 09:06
Paul B
JR. You say you lubed the cases propoerly. By what method? If you used a lube pad that you put the lube on and rolled the cases on it, they pick up a lot of dirt and grit, which sticks to the cases, and voila, scratched brass, scratched dies. I don't care how careful you are, dirt gets on the danged things. I always try to clean them off thoroughly prior to use, but I'm beginning to feel that it's a losing game. I'm also tired of replacing lube pads.
Paul B.
24 September 2001, 10:41
<jrpilot>
I cleaned the dies just before I used them. These dies are not new, I have had them for a few years and they have worked fine in the past, with regular brass. And also the cases that I used were new RP nickel cases. I went and looked at the brass and it seemed that they had some nickel in the neck. Is this the way all nickel brass is. I used a paper clip to feel the necks and they seem rough.


24 September 2001, 10:42
JerryO
quote:
Originally posted by jrpilot:
Well today I thought that I would try to reload some nickel 7mm brass that I have at the house. The dies that I used were Lee. Then I looked at the die and saw that there were scratch marks on the expander.

This sounds familiar. But were these reloads? or were they new brass?

My problems were with new nickel plated brass. The ends of the mouth were rough and would scratch the expander. I think (it's been awhile) I run the cases onto the expander just enough to round the mouths, then deburred the mouths inside and out. I probably run a brass brush on a drill into the mouths, also.

As to the scratches on the expander, As long as they don't scratch the cases I don't care, but would probably give them a light sanding after rounding all the case mouths.

Another way, use a carbide expander. I think redding has one that fits rcbs dies.

Anyway, once the inside of the necks are smooth, I haven't had any more problems.

JerryO


24 September 2001, 12:30
<jrpilot>
As I said on top I measured the expander and it was .281. The manufacture says that the expander is .2825. The brass cut some off the expander. Do you think that the expander is junk. This would cause the neck tension to increase.
24 September 2001, 12:34
<jrpilot>
This is new brass. Just wondering, how would the brass brush smooth the necks if the nickel is hard enough to scratch the steel on the dies.
24 September 2001, 13:43
JerryO
quote:
Originally posted by jrpilot:
Just wondering, how would the brass brush smooth the necks if the nickel is hard enough to scratch the steel on the dies.

Good question.

First, those are lee dies. Lee uses the easiest to machine steel they can find, if they think it is ok for the application (I think this is really good engineering). Anyway, the neck expander is probably very soft, at least as soft as your barrel steel

Second, who said nickel is hard. Not I. I don't have tensile strength for nickel, but have alway seen it praised for its ductility (like soft?).

Third, are those brushes (brass or bronze?) soft or hard? I have a chart of tensile strength (from the 50's) which list brass wire as running from 50,000 to 150,000 (bronze, phosphor, hard drawn is 110,000 to 140,000) pounds per square inch.

Fourth, sofer materials are often used to polish harder materials.

And finally I'm not sure if I smoothed the nickel or maybe just cleaned the inside of the necks. Anyway the reason I considered it was that used nickel cases seemed to be smoothed by the bullet which had been loaded and fired.

BTW: some other tensile strengths that I found:

Aluminum wire ---------- 30,000 to 40,000
lead ------------------- 2,600 to 3,300
platinum wire ---------- 50,000
steel ----------------- 40,000 to 330,000
piano wire .033 ------- 357,000 to 390,000
tungsten, hard drawn -- 590,000

JerryO


24 September 2001, 13:54
<Don G>
jrpilot,

I've never reloaded new nickel-plated brass. (Is that an oxymoron?) It was always once-fired.

JerryO made a good point that maybe you should run the expander ball into the neck just enough to force the mouth round, then use a deburring tool to get rid of any fringe of nickel at the mouth. The brush afterward then only has to pull the grit out of the neck.

A good use for a stainless brush (maybe the only good use) is to chuck the brush in a hand drill and use it to brush the case mouths. I have done this when loading moly bullets - mainly to get good bullet retention - but it also really cleans and regularizes the inside of the neck.

Good Luck,

Don

24 September 2001, 17:48
<jrpilot>
I used the idea of deburing the mouth in and out. This did help and the cases went into the dies. The only problem is that they are still not expanding enough because the expander was cut down by the rough cases the first time. I

Thanks for all the help.

25 September 2001, 05:28
Stonecreek
jrpilot: I had a lot of 7mm R Magnum nickel brass that was EXTREMELY rough inside the necks. I wrapped emory cloth around a wooden dowel chucked in a drill to smooth the insides of the necks. This helped immensely. Sounds like you have the same problem.