California legal bullets

06 March 2017, 21:07

Although I have a couple of years of hunting and reloading behind me, I have never been forced to use the non leaded bullets required in CA. therefore I completely lack the knowledge to get the right bullet for reloading for deer .

I am starting my buddy's daughter with a 250-3000 . The twist is a 1:10. What I need is some of your experienced info to get the reloading done right. What bullet should I start with? The chamber is throated long enough to accommodate long , heavy cup and core bullets but I don,t even have an idea what weight
, non leaded bullets to start with that would be adequate to nicely kill a deer from a .250-3000. I exspect to hear from you Ray.

roger

06 March 2017, 21:12

butchloc

i'm not totally sure but i think spears are still legal there

06 March 2017, 21:18

Smokin Joe

Sorry....no spears

No big or small game species can legally be taken with a spear.However, animals that are classified as "non-game" species could be (coyotes, rodents, opossum, etc).

For non-lead bullets, you might try the Hornady 90 gn GMX

http://www.hornady.com/store/25-Cal-.257-90-gr-GMX/

06 March 2017, 22:25

ramrod340

I have not used them but have a friend that used some Nosler E-tips. Said they worked fine for the couple of deer it took with them. They made a 90gr. for the 243

06 March 2017, 22:26

ddsipe

While the lead ban has not gone into effect in most of the state for big game hunting, it is in effect for some parts of the state. Full implementation will not take affect until 2019. Calif fish and game is ambiguous at best as to where non lead ammo is required. So check out the requirement for the area you wish to hunt. I don't think the hunting regs for the 2017-2018 hunting season have been published yet. They usually come out in late April to early May.

For the reloader you can use Barnes bullets, Nosler e-tip, etc. Most bullet makers are making lead free bullets now.

Check out this link for a list of Calif certified non lead bullets and ammo.

https://www.wildlife.ca.gov/Hu...Ammunition/Certified

We contend that for a nation to try to tax itself into prosperity is like a man standing in a bucket and trying to lift himself up by the handle.
--Winston Churchill

"Oh, nothing Mom, just pounding primers with a hammer ..."

Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first.

06 March 2017, 23:30

Ray B

When non-lead core bullets were being developed the main problem was the stiffness to the engraving of the rifling. The increased resistance lead to an increase in pressures. The first Barnes no-leads were notorious for fouling the bore with copper. the most commonly accepted solution has been to size the bullet to the bore and have bands to fill the grooves. Recent load data should specify if it was developed for the newer or older bullet.

I have two questions for those residing in locations such as California:
1. do the game wardens search each hunter to verify the use of "correct" ammo?
2. does the lead-free restriction apply to the various So.Cal. gangs in their negotiations regarding designated territory?

07 March 2017, 03:55

rnovi

RE: Will Wardens check ammo? Yes, yes they will. These Wardens are often hunters and reloaders themselves and know what the non-lead bullets look like.

As to the bullet itself: drive it lighter and as fast as you can for best effect. Bullets with pressure grooves work better for velocity (TSX, GMX) and will be 50fps or so faster than a common E-Tip. Having said that, I got my best accuracy with E-Tips and they are my go-to lead free bullet.

I'd recommend the 100 gr. E-Tip and push it to 2750+ in that 250-3000 if you can. Faster is better. I push them to 3k in my Bob and they do the job very well indeed.

07 March 2017, 04:21

bpesteve

Having used a fair number of Tipped TSX on game I'd try the Barnes 100 gr TTSX and if that bullet proves to be too long to stabilize I wouldn't hesitate to use the rather startlingly light 80 grain TTSX. Might be the best choice for the smaller Savage case anyway. Small case notwithstanding, the 250 is one of my favorites!

07 March 2017, 04:25

Grenadier

Any of the mono-metal bullets will work. Many of those have plastic tips.

I, too, like the Barnes TTSX (tipped triple shock) and TSX (triple shock). I have not used those in .25 caliber but I have used them in others. They offer an 80 grain and a 100 grain TTSX version in .257" with plastic tips. They also offer 100 grain and 115 grain TSX versions that have an exposed hollow point. All are lead-free.

Nosler offers their E-Tip and Hornady their GMX. Both of those are plastic tipped versions available in .257 caliber. Again, lead-free.

None of these really expand. Instead they peel back. That is why they are all hollow points. Yes, even the plastic tipped versions have a hollow point. They just have a plastic tip stuck in it.

07 March 2017, 05:17

Snellstrom

I would start with the 80 grain TTSX. Push it fairly fast until you find the accuracy "node' and have her go kill deer with it.
The 80 grain Mono metal will be dimensionally similar to a 100 grain spitzer boat tail lead core bullet but will out penetrate a 100 or 120 grain bullet of cup and core construction.

07 March 2017, 05:30

Fjold

I've been shooting the 22 through 375 Barnes bullets for about 15 years and couldn't be any happier. I now use them for all of my hunting whether required or not. For antelope and deer, up through African plains game, I just load light weight for the caliber, (110 in .270 Win, 130 in the 7 Mag, 250 in the 375 H&H, etc.)
and push them near top velocity.

Frank

"I don't know what there is about buffalo that frightens me so.....He looks like he hates you personally. He looks like you owe him money."
- Robert Ruark, Horn of the Hunter, 1953

NRA Life, SAF Life, CRPA Life, DRSS lite

07 March 2017, 19:37

Blacktailer

I started with Barnes with X bullets before they became required (have lived in the condor range all of my life). Been using TTSX for everything except where they are not available, in that case I use TSX. I use the 100gr TTSX in my Roberts with excellent results on deer. I have found the TTSX and TSX to be very accurate. Use Barnes data and since they like a fair amount of jump to the lands, seating them where the end of the case is even with the first groove is generally a good starting point.

09 March 2017, 08:11

ramrod340

I know you were talking reload but Nosler has a sale on 243 etip blems.

http://www.shootersproshop.com...F17&utm_medium=email

10 March 2017, 08:36

bartsche

Good start! Thanks guys.

roger

10 March 2017, 09:51

Smokin Joe

One thing about the Hornady bullet is that it's made out of gilding metal...same as a normal bullet jacket. It avoids the copper fouling problem.

11 March 2017, 01:27

rodell

Another option is the Cutting Edge offerings. They are quite a bit pricier but are superbly accurate.

11 March 2017, 03:21

Dulltool17

No offense to anyone, but, at some point, folks will find that living in another state is more cost-effective.
The tendency to over-regulate is strong in Cali.

GMX are good bullets, IMO

11 March 2017, 03:48

craigster

quote:
Originally posted by Dulltool17:

The tendency to over-regulate is strong in Cali.

Well, NSS. Tell us something we don't already know.

11 March 2017, 05:55

Fjold

quote:
Originally posted by Dulltool17:
No offense to anyone, but, at some point, folks will find that living in another state is more cost-effective.
The tendency to over-regulate is strong in Cali.

GMX are good bullets, IMO

If I wasn't so grossly overpaid with huge perks, I'd be gone today. I figure 5 more years and I'll leave and buy a couple of hundred acres in middle America to hunt whitetail on.

14 March 2017, 00:52

bartsche

quote:
Originally posted by Fjold:

If I wasn't so grossly overpaid with huge perks, I'd be gone today.

Those huge perks in your avatar can be found almost any where.

roger

15 March 2017, 02:13

RCHOUSER

I have had good luck with the Barnes TSX the last couple of seasons. I have found they will really nail down most anything edible. Pricy, but, a good bullet. I use them even though I can shoot lead where I am.

rch

15 March 2017, 02:56

Blacktailer

quote:
Originally posted by Smokin Joe:
One thing about the Hornady bullet is that it's made out of gilding metal...same as a normal bullet jacket. It avoids the copper fouling problem.

Back to the original topic. The TSX and TTSX have grooves that eliminated the fouling experienced with the original X bullets. I typically don't clean my rifles for 50-100 rounds with the current Barnes bullets which is a lot for a hunting rifle.
And yeah, Kommiefornia sucks and we have been looking but the weather is just so damned nice.

15 March 2017, 02:59

Grenadier

Get ready for a rabbit explosion after all those rains. Too bad you'll also have to shoot those with lead free bullets, even with a .22LR.

19 March 2017, 17:50

Saeed

Do Kalifornia legal bullets have to be organic?
Are they the same sex?
Do they kiss each other before firing?

Just curious to know mind!

19 March 2017, 21:07

Blacktailer

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Do Kalifornia legal bullets have to be organic?
Are they the same sex?
Do they kiss each other before firing?

Just curious to know mind!

Yes, there is nothing more organic than copper.
Of course, that's why they are called monometal. If they were different sexes they would have to be called bi-metal.
No but they sometimes kiss the rifling.

What should concern all of us is the prejudice towards monometal bullets. It seems a large constituency is monometalphobic. Saeed, I think it would be good as our benefactor to hold classes in monometal sensitivity. Failing that, would it be possible to set up a separate forum? We could call it Monometal Safe Space.

20 March 2017, 00:24

Joe from So. Cal.

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Do Kalifornia legal bullets have to be organic?
Are they the same sex?
Do they kiss each other before firing?

Just curious to know mind!

I understand that the rest of the country and the world sees California this way. As someone who has lived here for almost my entire life, I am ashamed at the way the lawmakers in this state act and at the sick, liberal attitude of the majority of the people who live here.

20 March 2017, 01:36

bartsche

Well I got the Barnes 80 gr. TTSX BTs. As soon as I get the ex-pander from RCBS I'll start working up some loads.

roger

20 March 2017, 03:01

eny

quote:
Originally posted by Grenadier:
Get ready for a rabbit explosion after all those rains. Too bad you'll also have to shoot those with lead free bullets, even with a .22LR.

Leaving dead jack rabbits in the field (or in piles) shot with shotgun and frangible 22 is most likely where most birds pick up the lead and not so much big game. This seem to be overlooked on both sides of the issue.

20 March 2017, 03:20

craigster

quote:
Originally posted by Joe from So. Cal.:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Do Kalifornia legal bullets have to be organic?
Are they the same sex?
Do they kiss each other before firing?

Just curious to know mind!

I understand that the rest of the country and the world sees California this way. As someone who has lived here for almost my entire life, I am ashamed at the way the lawmakers in this state act and at the sick, liberal attitude of the majority of the people who live here.

Most of the lawmakers in CA carry knee pads in their briefcases.

22 March 2017, 21:41

TomP

quote:
Originally posted by Ray B:

I have two questions for those residing in locations such as California:
1. do the game wardens search each hunter to verify the use of "correct" ammo?
2. does the lead-free restriction apply to the various So.Cal. gangs in their negotiations regarding designated territory?

I wouldn't advise messing with game wardens or the tax man either.

Lead will be prohibited statewide in 2019 for hunting, including rimfire for which there is no good alternative at this time.
We will still be allowed to shoot each other with lead under the usual circumstances.
Ugh.

23 March 2017, 07:38

Fjold

quote:
Originally posted by Ray B:
When non-lead core bullets were being developed the main problem was the stiffness to the engraving of the rifling. The increased resistance lead to an increase in pressures. The first Barnes no-leads were notorious for fouling the bore with copper. the most commonly accepted solution has been to size the bullet to the bore and have bands to fill the grooves. Recent load data should specify if it was developed for the newer or older bullet.

I have two questions for those residing in locations such as California:
1. do the game wardens search each hunter to verify the use of "correct" ammo?
2. does the lead-free restriction apply to the various So.Cal. gangs in their negotiations regarding designated territory?

1. Yes, the game wardens do inspect ammunition in the Condor protected areas. They now have the authority to confiscate one round for analysis.

2. No, the rule only applies to animals where the parts or entire carcasses are left in the field. The local governments tend to clean up the mess and not leave the lead in the field.

29 March 2017, 09:44

lawndart

I fell in love with California in 1977-1978. Unfortunately the state is like my first (practice) wife. A seductive blonde who loved to fornicate, but who turned on me the first chance, and made life miserable for two years. I have been an Idaho hillbilly for many years now, and am happy with the decision I made. Of course, I am from Illinois, so most anywhere was a step up.