how loud ?

24 March 2002, 08:40

waitaminit

how loud ?

When using the loading recommendations from "start with" to "do not exeed" for .308 and .300 Win mag, how much (in dB) the noise will increase ?
Due to complaints they are going to check the sound level of the range and I wonder if a mild load might help - I am slightly aware of the logarithmic law in acoustics.

Thanks for your input.

24 March 2002, 10:02

<Gary Rihn>

Not sure what the figures would be, but if you're getting noise complaints, a reduced 300 Mag "ain't gonna get it"!

24 March 2002, 10:42

Atkinson

If you are getting complaints about noise on the firing range then the complainents should be advised to take a hike..

All guns from say the 22 Hornet up will damage hearing profusely, thats why we wear hearing protetion..You are required to oblige all to don the protection I suppose, just prior to your shooting but thats as far as it goes...Reducing your load is going to accomplish nothing..

The folks you describe shouldn't be allowed on a shooting range, they have no business there.

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

24 March 2002, 10:54

ricciardelli

I was a member of a gun club in Oregon. The club was built, 150 years ago, in the middle of nowhere. It was the gathering place for all shooters. As life would have it, the city started to grow and soon it was bordered on the club's access road. The club no longer exists!

I was also a member of a trap club in Pennsylvania. This club was only around 30 years old, but it also had been built on land not deemed valuable for any other usage (other than maybe a dump). Soon that town started to grow, and soon the town was complaining about noise. That club no longer exists!

When I was a kid in New Jersey we used to take or .22's about 5 miles out of town to the "sand pits". It was desolate, there was no housing or buildings whatsoever located within 5 miles of the place. It was deep in the ground with "backstops" covering 360-degrees so there were no fly-away bullets. Some contractor built some apartments around 3 miles for the "pits", now there is a no-shooting law being enforced, and the kids in the twon where I grew up have no place to shoot!

I'm sure there are tons of stories like these, the trap clubs closed because the EPA or OSHA and the anti-gunners found lead in the ground! The clubs closed for noise.

Hell, I once built a small .22 indoor range in my basement. I had ventillation, sound-proofing, and correct backstops. One day one of my "neighbors" came over and wanted a "tour" of my house. This "neighbor" saw the range and asked what it was. The next day the plice were at my front door and issued me a summons for "discharging a firearm within the city limits"!

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http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

24 March 2002, 11:17

<Gary Rihn>

Whoops.

[This message has been edited by Gary Rihn (edited 03-24-2002).]

24 March 2002, 11:19

<Gary Rihn>

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
If you are getting complaints about noise on the firing range then the complainents should be advised to take a hike..
The folks you describe shouldn't be allowed on a shooting range, they have no business there.

I have a feeling it's the "neighbors", not the shooters.

24 March 2002, 12:49

waitaminit

Please excuse my diffuse formulations - it's the neighbors and the future may be what ricciardelli describes.

But now - how loud is loud, and how much difference, noisewise, makes a light load in comparison to a casefull-load ?

Thank you

24 March 2002, 14:11

Clark

I studied accoustics at the U of W for 5 credtits as an electrical engineer senior. I can calcultate allot of things about sound. But I was unable to figure out, for a few years, why the 24" barrels in .22CB Longs were so quiet and barrels 2" shorter were so loud. I asked this question all over the internet for years. Then someone suggested that the difference was the gas pressure required for supersonic gas. It turns out that the size of the supersonic gas ball determines the sound pressure level.

Using Quickload, one can get an approximation of the gas pressure at the time the bullet exits. Barrels of equal bore, length, and pressure will make the same sound.

The bore diameter and length act as a sourse impedance for the gas supplied to the supersonic gas ball and thus are needed WITH the gas pressure to determine sound.

At the time the supersonic gas ball slows its expansion to the speed of sound, a wave sound leaves the surface of the ball. The size of the ball at this point determine how load the gun is, but if the gas was never supersonic at all out side the barrel, the gun sounds like a pellet gun.

I can get the pellet gun sound from my 45-70 with 1/2 gr Bulleye pushing a lead ball. It I push the lead ball down into the case and compress the powder, the velocity more than doubles but the sound is the same, as the same gas pressure is present when the bullet escapes [even though the pressure peak goes up].

[This message has been edited by Clark (edited 03-24-2002).]

24 March 2002, 23:00

<.>

Tri-County Gun Club near Sherwood, OR. Right ricciardelli??? Seems the gentry would disarm the "old money" that has been using that area for a century and a half.

"Noise" in a firearm report is pretty subjective stuff. Also extremely variable. Barrel length affects the pitch of the report with some pitches affecting/bothering people more than others.

Details of your environment affect noise. Hard ground, whether or not you're "buffered" by hills, wooded areas, or not buffered over water, etc.

I don't think reducing the load is going to quell the neighbor's complaints.

25 March 2002, 00:26

<Crawfish>

No one mentioned this sound increaser. If your shooter of choice has a break hanging on the end stand by. I have a few Contender barrels with brakes. I never take them to my local indoor range. I only shoot them on my own outdoor range and even then usually only when I'm by myself. That break surley redirects the sound so that it is very unpleasent to those shooters to your sides.

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Handgun Hunter
LOVE THOSE .41s'

25 March 2002, 02:36

waitaminit

As a rule of the thumb a .308 has 145 dB(A) at the muzzle towards the target and 50% in the direction of the shooter.

As this is a 1000 m range, one will need every grain, and reducing the load to minimize noise is a very academic approach, I know. I am just fishing for some figures.

25 March 2002, 03:27

<Gary Rihn>

quote:
Originally posted by waitaminit:
As a rule of the thumb a .308 has 145 dB(A) at the muzzle towards the target and 50% in the direction of the shooter.

If I remember correctly, it takes a 10-fold increase in noise to gain one decibel. (Or is it doubling the noise?). Either way, 20 decibels is not the double of 10 decibels, it's much more. So to get any significant decibel decrease, you'll need to reduce the actual noise a bunch.

It's a lousy position to be in, I wish you guys luck.

25 March 2002, 03:42

<eldeguello>

What Ricciardelli describes is a result of the fact that there are now twice as many people living in the USA as there were when he used to shoot at those long-gone clubs. We may be forced to do here what they have done in Germany-build our ranges in concrete culvert-tubes, in tunnels, or underground where projectiles and sound waves cannot escape into the surrounding urbanized terrain. Here in southern PA, they are now building houses for people who commute to as far away as Washington DC to work, and the end is not in sight. I am ready to go back to Alaska!!