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Re: Annealing Temperature

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https://forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/2511043/m/364100801

17 January 2004, 13:14
Bob338
Re: Annealing Temperature
I noted your edit!

That site looks like it could be a neat spot. Hope there is more traffic there in due course.
17 January 2004, 12:58
waitaminit
Bob, I think I translated �C to �F in the website mentioned above.
By the way - the formula is simple: �F = �C x 1.8 +32


Thank you for referring to E. Naramore. In his "Principles and Practice of Loading Ammunition", p.665 (Temperature Considerations) he writes:

...temperatures up to 482�F have no appreciable effect on cold-worked brass...
...At 495�F a change in grain structure begins to take place in that there is some re-forming of crystals although the brass still remains as hard as before....
...The transition temperature for cartridge brass or the heat at which the cold-worked metal breaks down to a fine-grained structure, which is the kind of structure desireable in case necks, is 662�F...
15 January 2004, 05:29
skb2706
Any body have the correct brass annealing temperature ? Thanks in advance.....
15 January 2004, 05:48
Bigdaddytacp
Quote:

Any body have the correct brass annealing temperature ? Thanks in advance.....

.....The figure I have seen most often is 660/650 degrees F.......this was in a article in a old Handloader and I think a ad for the new Hornady?annealing kit......I use a 600 temp stick or templiac on the body below the shoulder when turning the case in a sinclair case holder in a elect screwdriver and propane torch flame....it has worked well for me with several sized cases....I have heard that speciality welding companies can order the templiac in exact 10degree temperatures but I guess that when the body gets 600 below the shoulder- the neck and shoulder have hit the 660 mark.....then the dunk in cold water immediately and it softens the brass without being too soft.....HTH..good luck and good shooting-loading!!
15 January 2004, 07:48
Bob338
The grain of 70-30 brass doesn�t alter significantly until minimum 572�F. 680� to 700� F. is the ideal temperature for cases. Annealing continues until approximately 1400� F., at which point brass is completely annealed and dead soft. Beyond that brass burns and is completely useless. There is a website for the properties of the various types of brass but I don't have the address.

This information comes for the NRA Handloaders Guide.
15 January 2004, 08:41
SloPoke
Quote: .....then the dunk in cold water immediately and it softens the brass without being too soft.....HTH..good luck and good shooting-loading!!

Are you sure you are supposed to "dunk in cold water immediately"...

I believe that will HARDEN the brass, not anneal it. I believe to anneal it, you let it cool naturally to room temperature from the 600-660 degree temperature.

I've never had to anneal my brass myself, but I seem to remember from metal shop class (way back there!), that annealing takes a slow cool down, and hardening is a fast "quenching" cool down in water or oil.
15 January 2004, 09:05
Lar45
For some reason brass works different than steel. To harden the brass then you let it cool slower. It doesn't make sense to me. Maybe someone with experience in metal properties can enlighten us? I was talking with a jewler the other day and she showed me in a book that Silver acts the same way. Bring up to temp and soak for along time, then cool slowly will make it hard, to get any harder you need to reduce the size, ie work harden.

I think we may need to look at weather we need to anneal or stress relieve. If we need the cases soft for forming or something then annealing would be the way to go. But if we just wanted to relieve the stress for extended case life, then maybe just heating and then air cooling would work as well without the drawbacks of haveing the necks too soft and not giveing good bullet tension.

????????????
15 January 2004, 09:48
Ricochet
Slo-poke, with brass the softening would be about the same with or without dunking in water. The main reason for dunking it is to stop the heat from spreading farther down the body of the case toward the head. Not everyone dunks it, and it's probably OK not to as long as you don't let the case body get too hot. Some people hold the case head in their fingers as they play a flame on the neck so they'll have to drop it before it gets to hot.
15 January 2004, 10:08
skb2706
Again thanks everybody........I am getting the temp sticks tomorrow and that would narrow down the number I need. They are kinda pricey for a elaborate crayon.
15 January 2004, 18:24
Grandpasez
You must cool it in water to eliminate the chance of heat spreading to the case base or the case sides just above the base and softening it, as that weakens head, and makes side just above base stretch easier.Heat travels in brass much faster than in steel.Ed.
16 January 2004, 15:14
IceHoleKen
I just stand them up in a baking pan, (like a brownie pan)in an inch or so of water. I use a propane torch and heat the neck until it gets a orange glow, then use the tip of the torch to tip it over into the water. I dont know what tempeture I get them to, I have temp sticks, but if the flame hits the mark it will melt anyways.