LOAD DEVELOPMENT VS. RUNOUT& Nit PICK

09 June 2004, 07:06

voldoc02

Well after much mental anguish and much $$, I have my Rem 700 carbon barrel 22-250 SHOOTING!! Now putting pet load into 3' and 4's. I got a new Redding competition seating die $65.oo ochhh.., tried everything known to mankind to reduce Runout to minimum but the real difference was developing a load(52 Speer HPBT match, 37.6 grs. Varget, Fed 210M , FL sized , 2.446" OAL, velocity 3,768 fps w/ small SD,) and w/ this load RO could be 0 or .006-.007" and the groups would still be < 1/2", so listening to the advise given here: Load developement beats worry over RO in hunting (varmint ) rifles. Life is good. thanx, Doc Stone comments and expand please

09 June 2004, 07:37

ricciardelli

"Told ya so..."

09 June 2004, 09:05

voldoc02

Yes Steve you were right!! Guess I had to find out for myself.. thanx, Doc

09 June 2004, 12:08

TBF

Methinks .0000 runout is alot like a low SD.

Not something to get rid of when it happens.

Not something to freak out about not having achieved before you shoot some groups.

Less is better than more. But more than zero is acceptable.

Travis F.

09 June 2004, 12:38

Hot Core

Quote:

... Load developement beats worry over RO in hunting (varmint ) rifles. ...

Hey Doc, There you go destroying another myth.... No, the one about a UT Grad not being able to learn a thing!

I'm not really into fretting about Run Out since I Partial-Full Length Resize, but I do see a WHOLE LOT of "Neck Sizing" fans putting in a lot of effort to avoid it.

...

Now, I don't suppose I should mention this since you are obviously very happy with your Load, but I wonder how well the same Load would shoot in cases with low Run Out?

Might not make a bit of difference - depending on how you Resize the cases.

...

By the way, I hear a rumor about some kind of HUGE Outdoor Show in Bristol this weekend. You going to it?

09 June 2004, 14:12

voldoc02

Hot Core, You really know how to hurt a UT grad.

. Anyway just today I shot several groups of the same load identical in every way except for bullet runout. Some bullets showed as high as .008" , so I shot all the high RO's together as strings (5 shots) and compared directly to low or no runout strings and the difference is null (none to you NC guys).

I think having a good barrel and an action relatively true and good bullets are more important than just bullet RO in sporting arms but probably a good thing for BR. thnax, and go TARHEELS (not) Doc

09 June 2004, 14:18

voldoc02

Hot Core, Forgot to answer about the outdoor show in Bristol. That's too far from where I live in Middle TN< but I used to do contract dental care for some nursing homes in the tri-city area. I now own a dental service company (children's and geriatric )( young and old) and do not have to travel as I used to do. Doc

10 June 2004, 02:19

Hot Core

Quote:

... the difference is null (none to you NC guys).

Hey Doc, Thanks for clearing up that high falutin' word for me!

Quote:

... go TARHEELS (not)

HA, you missed! Actually prefer the Duke Blue Devils< !--color--> when in NC, Clemson Tigers< !--color--> when in SC and it is REALLY a TOUGH choice when I'm in KY between the two excellent schools of the UofL Cardinals< !--color--> and the UK Wildcats< !--color-->.

Good luck with the rifle and Load. No need to say good luck with the UT Vols< !--color-->, cause it seems as if they nearly ALWAYS have a lot of luck!

10 June 2004, 02:51

Hot Core

Quote:

... Now putting pet load into 3' and 4's. ...52 Speer HPBT match, 37.6 grs. Varget, Fed 210M , FL sized , 2.446" OAL, velocity 3,768 fps w/ small SD...comments and expand please

Hey Doc, I don't remember commenting on your actual Load back when you were asking about it. Any improvement on that Load is going to be quite difficult to achieve.

But, at the chance of totally destroying your good groups, you might want to try some good old H380 pushing 52gr Sierras. And I've had excellent accuracy with the 50gr Nosler B-Tips.

It has been a very long time since I've had any dealings with a 22-250, so the Varget might just be the best choice today though.

One last thing, if you have not had your trigger "slicked up", I can recommend that highly. I don't know a Gun Smith in your area, but John Lewis can be reached by emailing CPRifles@aol.com (Carolina Precision Rifles) and he can do a first rate job on it for you.

You probably have it adjusted pretty well in order to get those groups. John can change a spring if need be, repolish the sear surfaces and have it break very light for you - like a piece of glass.

And of course the aftermarket triggers are another option. I've always wondered why Remington didn't couple the Electronic Trigger and the Carbon Fiber Barrel into a single rifle. Sure would have the potential for a very accurate Production rifle.

Congratulations on those excellent groups. When I shoot a group like that now days, I call it excellent "Random Group Dispersion". Gotten old enough that I can't count on my eyesight and concentration to repeat them from group to group.

10 June 2004, 04:48

kraky

I too, always felt that "the trip down the barrel" makes or breaks the load and that slight runnout DOES NOT. That being said it's possible that big long bullets might be slightly more affected by runnout than the short little stubby 22's and 243's. I noticed a long time ago when I loaded 55 grain noslers in my .243 they barely seated in the case and I could never get good runnout but they sure shot good. That being said you might have to wonder a little if a big long match king, or barnes x might be at least a little suseptable to bigger variations (say over .005") of runnout. Still I would definately throw much more "accuracy potential" to a good load that matches barrel harmonics, a "seasoned" barrel, and a good shooting gun.

10 June 2004, 13:12

Hot Core

Quote:

... it's possible that big long bullets might be slightly more affected by runnout than the short little stubby 22's and 243's. ...

Hey Kraky, By golly, you might just be on to something there!

After I read your post, I got to thinking about how well some old 35cal 150gr Rem SPs shoot in my 350RemMag. I've actually measured the "Leap-to-the-Lands"(bigger than a jump) and it is 0.264" (no misprint - over 1/4").

When I have my concentration up, I've shot 9 into a single group that was in the 5s-6s. Can't remember without going to view that Target, but all 9 were "inside" a 1" black square.

The point being, that this is also a very short for caliber bullet too.

Thanks for mentioning that observation.