Cleaning moly coated barrels...........

13 January 2002, 08:14

Bill Adams

I have just started using moly bullets in my 22-250 and my 220 Swift. Would you guys give me a little cleaning advice? Also, what if I want to shoot non-moly coated bullets, I mean can I switch back and forth? I have not done this, but I have bunch of rounds that are not coated that I would like to shoot up.What is the routine for caring and cleaning a moly coated barrel. Thank you! BA

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Razorbacker

13 January 2002, 08:41

<Martindog>

I use Shooter's Choice and Kroil mixed 3/1 on patches. Then I use either some IOSSO or JB on a patch over a worn brush and short stroke from the throat to the first couple of inches of barrel (someone else I just read recommended IOSSO on a nylon brush, w/o a patch). Follow up with a couple more SC/Kroil patches to get the gunk out and a couple of dry patches.

One of the keys with Moly is to not clean back down to bare metal after each cleaning. If there's still a little bit of copper in there, don't worry about it until your accuracy suffers and then hit it with a couple applications of Sweets or CR-10. But the basic goal is to remove the powder/carbon fouling, but still leave a decent coat of moly in the bore.

As far as mixing naked and coated bullets, can't help you there. I suppose you could, but after shooting naked bullets, hit it with a copper buster.

Martindog

13 January 2002, 09:08

Zero Drift

The rule of thumb is you can shoot copper over moly but not moly over copper. It would be best to settle on one or the other.

By switching back and forth, there is a chance of trapping copper fouling under moly. This is not a good thing.

Ditto Martindog - SC and Kroil work well for cleaning between shooting. JB Bore paste or IOSSO will get you back down to base metal quickly.

13 January 2002, 09:12

Atkinson

Jack Belk uses only molycoated bullets in his varmint rifles that get shot as much as 1000 rounds per day around here..He only uses a bore snake since he made the change and it sure works for him..He runs it through about evey 100 rounds..Never uses a cleaning rod anymore...when he gets home he dabs a bit of Hoppes on the snake and runs it through about 3 times and puts them up..His bore scope proves his point....

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Ray Atkinson

ray@atkinsonhunting.com
atkinsonhunting.com

13 January 2002, 09:59

Bill Adams

A bore snake is what I have been using, but I keep wanting to do some more. Thanks for info! BA

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Razorbacker

13 January 2002, 10:50

<Varmint Hunter>

I've been shooting moly bullets for several years. I clean with SC/Kroil @2.5/1. I don't think the ratio matters all that much. SC/Kroil does not remove moly but does a good job of removing copper and carbon. I never use aggressive bore cleaners like CR-10 or Sweets in my custom barrels. You probably could use them without harm if you carefully follow the directions but I'd rather not.
Walt Berger, who probably shot more moly bullets than anyone, never even used a brush. He preferred to use a bore paste like USP or similiar for his routine cleaning. It's hard to argue with Walt's success.
I've found bore pastes to be messy, time consuming and unnecessary, so I stick with the SC/Kroil which has worked well for me.
Shooting naked bullets from a moly coated bore will cause the moly to be worn away. It won't hurt anything but when your done you must remove ALL the residual copper fouling and reestablish a moly layer as you did originally. Switching back & forth is probably not a good idea. Why not just moly coat your spare bullets?

13 January 2002, 12:35

DB Bill

If you go to the Berger home page all he suggests is the use of several patches of Kroil followed by a patch saturated with JBs short-stroked down the barrel followed by another 2 patches of Kroil followed by a dry patch.

14 January 2002, 04:26

Hot Core

Hey Bill Adams, I've been using Moly Coated bullets in all my rifles ever since it first came out. Good stuff.

Use whatever cleaning method you desire, but I'd recommend you loose the BoreSnake. It is a waste of time and in no way will it properly "clean" a barrel.

If your Bore is relatively smooth and if the Moly is applied correctly to your Bullets, you won't be seeing Copper in the barrel anyhow. Do you coat your own, or do you buy pre-coated bullets?

I agree that it is not a good idea to switch back and forth between coated and non-coated.

One last thing, once you finish cleaning the barrel(with a Bore Brush), coat the Bore with a grease containing MOS2. Then run two dry patches through it to remove any excess. It is a BIG mistake for anyone to think that Moly "protects" a barrel from moisture, because it doesn't.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

14 January 2002, 10:21

Bill Adams

Thank you HotCore, I have been shooting V-max moly coated, but I have tried treating some of the other bullets that I have had on hand with Ms, Moly. It seems to work OK. Thanks for your reply! BA

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Razorbacker

14 January 2002, 15:17

Hot Core

Hey Bill Adams, Your Welcome.

I've no experience with Ms. Moly, so I'm reluctant to mention this.

However, with the experience I do have "Peening" MOS2 onto the Jacket, I'd venture a guess that if you "pulled" one of your Ms. Moly coated bullets after it was Seated in a Case, you might find most of the Moly gone on the major bearing surface. And I would recommend you do pull one to find out if my guess is correct. Hopefully I'm full of beans about that, but I just have a bad feeling about it remaining on the Bullet through the Seating process.

If you do it, please let me know what you see. If it is in fact missing, then it is no wonder you are finding Copper in your barrel.

Just in case you decide to begin doing the impact(peening) Moly Coating, here are three tricks you need to jot down in your Loading Manual or somewhere so you will not loose them.

1. Always wash the Bullets in HOT water and "Dawn" soap as soon as you open the box. Let them soak in that HOT Dawn for 20-30 minutes, agitating them occasionally. Rinse in more HOT water and DO NOT touch the Bullets with your hands until you are completely through the Moly Coating process. Set in the sun to air-dry on a towel.

2. After "peening" the MOS2 onto the surface of the Bullet, it is VERY Important to follow with a 60sec tumble in Carnuba impregnated corn cob. I use good old Liquid Kit car wax, but anything containing Carnuba will do. DO NOT tumble for more than 60seconds in the wax.

3. Wrap a piece of "0000 Steel Wool" around a Bore Brush for the caliber you are working with and stick it into some kind of Non-Powered handle. This is your Case Mouth "Polishing Tool". After Trimming and Chamfering of the case mouth, ALWAYS polish the Case Mouth with 2-3 turns with the Polishing Tool. This will remove ALL Case Mouth imperfections. Blow across the case to make sure none of the Steel Wool has fallen inside. Now seat the bullets and you will not have "scratch marks" in the peened on Moly. You will want to do this with your Moly Coated Hornady bullets too.

Good luck to you!

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

[This message has been edited by Hot Core (edited 01-14-2002).]

14 January 2002, 18:03

<Martindog>

Hot Core,

Why is it "VERY IMPORTANT" to follow moly application w/wax? Some kits include it while others don't (mine claims it's optional). All I've ever heard is that the wax makes them cleaner to handle bare handed later, but serves no particular function during a bullet's travel down the bore. Just curious what your thoughts are.

Martindog

15 January 2002, 02:45

Hot Core

Hey Martindog, When I first began using the Moly coated bullets(that I'd coated myself and no wax tumble), I would notice trace amounts of Copper in my barrels.

I originally thought that I just wasn't peening the bullets in the Moly long enough. Then I did enough testing to realize that was not the problem. Still trace Copper.

Maybe a slightly rough barrel in my factory rifles. Carefully Hand Lapping one reduced that possibility to the point that I didn't think that was it either. Still trace Copper.

I thought maybe I wasn't getting enough Moly onto the "Bore Surface" prior to running a Moly Coated bullet through the barrel. I'd lube the barrel with a Moly grease, wipe it with two dry patches and follow it with a patch having "MOS2 Powder" on the patch. Then fire a cartridge, lightly clean and repeat, repeat, repeat, etc. Still trace Copper.

I went back and reread a very old article in(I think) Precision Shooting and the guy had mentioned using the Carnuba wax. He'd also mentioned only tumbling the bullets in the "Carnuba Treated" corn cob for less than 60 seconds. The original author(can't remember his name or I'd be glad to give him the MUCH DESERVED credit) went on to say if you tumbled them in the wax/cob too long that the bullets would get a "mottled" appearance, but they seemed to shoot OK.

Huuuummmm!! Well, I got some fresh untreated corn cob, dumped in some Liquid Kit and let it run for an hour or so to evenly distribute the wax. I could "feel" the wax on the cob when I stopped it.

Then I got out some bullets I KNEW for sure had been peened well and gave them a 60sec tumble in the Liquid Kit Car Wax / corn cob and they looked fine. Even had a slightly different appearance, not quite as "flat black" as before.

Now, after a bit of barrel prep, there just isn't any trace Copper in any of my barrels. Most of them have not been Hand Lapped either. So, that is why(from my experience) I recommend following the Moly Coating with a 60sec Carnuba Wax tumble.

This brought up the question in my mind about what would happen if the only thing I did to a bullet was to wax it??? Don't know the answer to that yet, cause ALL my barrels have Moly going through them.

I have a buddy with a bunch of "new" rifles that only the factory Proof Loads have been through. I want to try the "Wax Only" bullets through one of his and see what it does this Summer. Probably still get trace Copper, but it will be an interesting test.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

15 January 2002, 03:11

<Martindog>

Hote Core,

Does the name Ralph Constantine ring a bell? I think he's done some moly articles for PS. Anyway, did you heat the bullets before waxing them? I've heard that one where you warm them in oven for a bit and you get a nicer coating. Have also heard to limit the tumbling time as you suggest. Also heard, and maybe you can confirm, that a cheap source for wax is a confectioner's/candy store. The wax for bullets is essentially the same thing used on jelly beans.

I've never waxed mine and I do get trace copper in the bore, but it cleans out pretty quickly. My hands do get a bit "mollied" when setaing bullets, but they clean up with just plain soap and water. I may try the wax just to see if improves things. Thanks.

Martindog

15 January 2002, 17:51

<sure-shot>

quote:
Originally posted by Atkinson:
Jack Belk uses only molycoated bullets in his varmint rifles that get shot as much as 1000 rounds per day around here..

Ray,

WOW! That is a whole lotta shooting! Care to give up Jack's hotspot? Who has powder on sale? Or should I be asking who has barrels on sale? sure-shot

16 January 2002, 00:06

Hot Core

Hey Martindog, I do not remember Ralph Constantine, but he could be the guy. If I spot that issue in my stuff, I'll look.

I did not heat the Moly Coated bullets prior to tumbling in the wax/cob. If you do try that and see an improvement, let us know.

And, I've also missed out hearing anything about getting the wax from a candy store. If it works and is cheaper, I'm all for it.

Good luck with your waxing.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

16 January 2002, 01:46

Bill Adams

Hey Hot Core, Well you were right about the Ms. Moly coated bullets. I pulled a couple and the moly was scraped off, right were it is needed most. I always polish the inside of my case mouths as a normal part of my case prep. I pulled a moly coated V-Max also, and it looked good, but there was a little moly removed from it also. I think I will fart off the Ms. Moly and buy factory coated bullets for my good guns. I have an old mini-14 that I carry around on my farm, it don't care what it shoots, I'll load up my uncoated bullets for it:} Thanks for your reply! BA

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Razorbacker

16 January 2002, 03:39

Hot Core

Hey Bill Adams, Thank you for checking and letting all of us know about the Ms.Moly slipping off.

I will admit that getting set-up to peen Moly onto your own bullets, and then actually doing it, can be a bit trying. If I didn't have a good many firearms, it probably wouldn't be worth the mess.

I think you are on the right track. Good luck.

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Good hunting and clean 1-shot kills, Hot Core

16 January 2002, 05:14

DB Bill

If you don't like to mess around putting moly on your own bullets you have two choices...(1) use commercial bullets that are "molyed" at the factory or (2) their are a variety of places that will either put moly on bullets you provide and buy the bullets you want and put moly on them.

I prefer to have someone else do this type of thing so I can spend my time either loading or shooting plus I wasn't able to do it well enough to not make a mess or produce a coated bullet that satisfied me.