Re: Cold bore sight in.

10 September 2004, 08:23

323

My question then is if the first bullet hits a inch high at a 100yds centered then the other five are scaterred all over the target then we shouldn't have to worry about the accuracy of the rifle since the first shot hits 1 inch high center everytime and then all we are worried about then is the first shot? who cares where the other bullets are going. I have never had this problem I shoot 5 shot groups and they are usually 1/2 inch groups or less. So why do people make a big deal about there rifles and groups size from what I have read so far all we have to worry about is 1 shot groups.

09 September 2004, 18:18

323

Have any of you ever heard of this, I was dove hunting today with another fellow and he was talking about how he took his new Browning A-bolt in a 300 wsm and was cold bore sighting it in. I told him I have been shooting rifles for a long time and I have never heard of such a thing he went on to explain the first shot counts so he shoots his rifle and waits 20 minutes and shoots again repeating the step of waiting 20 minutes. He said his first shot is always about inch and half to two inches higher than the follow up shots sounds like he is getting a verical string no tight groups. This sounds like this rifle doesn't like the ammo he is using I'm assuming he is using winchester ammo since that is the only brand we can get at wal-mart here which by the way shoot fine in my rifle half inch groups at a hundred yards. I told him I usually shoot five shot groups at a hundred yards and if you get a half inch group or less you are good but he said no cold bore shooting is the way to go. He then asked me if I could load some rounds up for him to try so I'm going to give him some ammo that shot real well in my savage which consists of 65.5 gr of H414 behind a 150gr Nosler B.T. I was just wondering what guys thought of this process it sounds tediuos to me anyhow.

10 September 2004, 01:48

Hot Core

Quote:

... He then asked me if I could load some rounds up for him to try so I'm going to give him some ammo that shot real well in my savage which consists of 65.5 gr of H414 behind a 150gr Nosler B.T. ...

Hey 323, Let me discourage you from "giving" him any of your ammo. If he somehow manages to blow-up his rifle, due to no fault of yours, his insurance company would still feel obligated to take you for all you are worth.

If he wants "Reloaded Ammo", offer to show him how to do it with your equipment, but with him doing the actual reloading. He will either gladly jump at the opportunity or claim he doesn't have enough time. The last part meaning "his time" is more valuable to him than "your time".

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Cold Bore Sighting is simply a variation on the wording of the old "One Shot Group".

I also like One Shot Groups to see exactly where the First Shot from a totally clean barrel will go. And I might take a second shot, but I've never fired more than twice at Game in 50 years. If I haven't killed it by the rarely needed second shot, than something is wrong with the firearm, scope or ammo.

However, I do shoot more than 2-shots when developing Loads to determine where the best groups are in relation to the barrel harmonic.

10 September 2004, 02:13

Savage99

323,

In hunting rifles the first shot means everything to me. I fire two shot groups for most of the hunting rifle testing that I do. But it's impact location of the first shot that counts.

Target rifles are different and some must shoot 130 shot groups.

10 September 2004, 02:56

<eldeguello>

You haven't heard of this? This is the approach suggested by COL Townsend Whelen ages ago. He called it "the sniper's zero", because in sniping, as well as hunting, it is the first shot that counts! I go your friend one better. Not only do I let the barrel cool when developing the sniper's zero, I clean then dry the bore so that the bore is in as close to the same condition as possible for each shot as it will be in when I hunt with it....

10 September 2004, 03:04

PPosey

My 7mm-08 will put two in the same hole then they start wondering,

I sight for a cold fouled barrel

12 September 2004, 13:25

Collins

BTT with a question...
How do the pro's do it? Police or military snipers. Do they leave their guns fouled and sight in with one shot cold? The first real (I'd assume) shot a hunter or pro sniper makes is out of a cold barrel. This enquiring mind wants to know.

10 September 2004, 01:02

Tailgunner

Clean & cold, Fouled & cold, Fouled & warm. Normaly all 3 have a different impact point. Shooting & recording what your rifle does in each situation is what shows the difference.
Personaly, I sight in for where the 1st round out of a Cold & fouled barrel hits. The rest of the rounds I shoot that day are for group, not location.
There is one fella that advocates hanging 2 targets, #1 is used for the first shot only, with all the rest being fired on target #2. On his next range session he re-hangs target # 1 and a fresh target (#3). After a few trips he has 1 target that shows how the rifle groups with a cold barrel, and several that show how it groups with a warm & fouled one.

10 September 2004, 08:41

Cold Bore

Quote:

My question then is if the first bullet hits a inch high at a 100yds centered then the other five are scaterred all over the target then we shouldn't have to worry about the accuracy of the rifle since the first shot hits 1 inch high center everytime and then all we are worried about then is the first shot? who cares where the other bullets are going.

Yeah, just forget about the rest of the shots. Hell, just use a single shot rifle. Or a shotgun.

No, if "the other five are scaterred all over the target", you've got a problem.

My point is that a lot of rifles will print the first shot to a slightly different point than the rest of the group. A "little" bit is acceptable, IF you KNOW about it, something that sprays them everywhere is not.

I happen to enjoy precision rifle work, and have done quite well at it. If you are willing to accept haphazard results, and rely on follow-up shots, so be it.

Go back & read my original reply. Nowhere do I say anything about accepting lousy accuracy. As a matter of fact, I mention small groups.

If you always get 1/2" groups, great. Keep it up. For those that don't, the FIRST shot is more important than any of the rest.

10 September 2004, 03:36

KevinNY

I think this is an excellent post that shows how many folks get caught up in worrying about the wrong thing. I like the idea of the cold bore zero and have tested it in my 300 by shooting shots at the same bull on different days with a cold fouled bore and also in different temperatures, it really shows how much you can count on a rifle and load to deliver the shot that counts.

Sort of like 2 shooters; one who can shoot 1/2 MOA 5 shot groups of a bench while waiting for the barrel to cool between shots and one who can hit a clay target out to 250 yards from field position, which one would you bet on to make that first shot count?

10 September 2004, 03:09

Cold Bore

Well, I thought you were talking to me direct, so I felt obligated to reply.

The "Cold Bore shot" is my main concern.

No follow-up shot, fast or otherwise, is as important to a hunter as that first, well-placed, cold bore, shot.

You MUST know where your FIRST shot is going to land.

Small groups are nice, but if they are in a different location than that first shot, you need to know that.

When was the last time that you fired a five shot, benchrested, group at a calm, standing-still, animal? By the time the SECOND shot is on it's way, let alone the third/fourth/fifth, you are dealing with a moving animal, and the extra 1/4" of accuracy means nothing...