Interesting reading, getting me in trouble

07 December 2010, 06:41

I purchased a old book about realoading. I find it fasinating. Complete Guide to Handloading published 1937. I'm about to try some of the things I'm reading about.
One is using graphite wads behind a jacketed bullet. It says it improves accuracy and extends the life of the barrel. Different formulas are listed. Some are Japan wax and graphite melted together, when cooled and rolled to 1/8" thick, after loading the powder you push it on the case mouth, like a cookie cutter, then seat the bullet.
Any thoughts on this? Is moly sort of the same?
Am I going down a wrong road?
David

07 December 2010, 07:36

Ol` Joe

since it follows the bullet down the bore and exits after the shot, just how exactly does it supposedly help?

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07 December 2010, 08:12

Woodrow S

Just remember that the patch needs to be factored into the weight of the load being pushed down the barrel and the patch displaces space, takes up part of the combustion chamber making it smaller which will elevate pressures. Be careful and work up your loads gradually. It's ok to experiment and have fun doing so, but use some common sense and ask questions if your not sure.

07 December 2010, 18:02

Hot Core

quote:
Originally posted by stronics:
after loading the powder you push it on the case mouth, like a cookie cutter, then seat the bullet. Any thoughts on this?

Just be sure you are using a Straight Wall Case similar to a 38SPl, 357Mag. 444mar, 45-70 etc. If you try this on a Bottle Neck Case, the Wad can fall off and become skewed inside the Case.

quote:
Is moly sort of the same?

I do not know how it would act when mixed with Beeswax or Paraffin.

If you want to try Moly, it might be best to saturate some Felt Cloth with it. Then cut the Wads with a "Fired Case" that has the mouth sharpened with a Champfer Tool. If you try this, it helps to Drill Out the Primer Pocket so you can push a Rod through to remove the Wads.

quote:
Am I going down a wrong road?

Depends on what you are trying to accomplish.

By the way, I'd also cut some Cardboard Gas Checks from a waxed Milk Carton(if they still make them) using the "Fired Case" and insert them into the Cse Mouth before either type of Wad. That would "help" keep the Lube away from the Powder.

One of the current Lead Bullet Lubes that hardens could also be used. Plus it is less likely to become too soft on a HOT day.

Best of luck to you.

07 December 2010, 18:47

243winxb

quote:
Am I going down a wrong road?

Yes. a dangerous one.

07 December 2010, 21:48

wasbeeman

While it is interesting to read about some of the old techniques and theories, the ones that haven't stood the test of time, didn't for a reason.

07 December 2010, 22:13

Skipper488

quote:
Originally posted by 243winxb:
quote:
Am I going down a wrong road?
Yes. a dangerous one.

Don't leave it at that. Illuminate us.

08 December 2010, 00:29

Bear in Fairbanks

I'd listen to HotCore on this one. These sorts of shennanigans are done with BP in straight walled rifle cases. No way would I do this in a bottle necked cartridge.
Besides, with the quality of steel used in today's barrels, what's the concern about longer barrel life?
Bear in Fairbanks

08 December 2010, 04:03

stronics

When I started reading this book I was like you gentlemen thinking this is crazy stuff. The more I read it the more I thinking they had a lot going for them. This was published in 1937 and at that time they had been using these methods for 40+ years. I'm not trying to get anyone to believe or try this but boy is this book interesting. Some of the big names we all know and respect have contributated.
They did use a graphic wax plug behind a copper bullet in a bottleneck cartridge. In the early days of testing the 220 Swift the barrels were shot out at 800 rounds. With the wax graphic plugs the were going to 4000 with very little wear. Isn't that interesting?

Complete Guide to Handloading
Philip B. Sharpe
1937
Great read,
David

08 December 2010, 09:27

Woodrow S

Just because it was written don't mean it was true. Lots of embellishing going on then as it is now. Everybody thinks their ideas are spectacular and some even think they work! In most cases, if it is a great idea someone will market it....and in most cases it was not.

08 December 2010, 18:30

Tailgunner

Stronics
Phil Sharpe is a good read, another guy you may want to read is Dr Fredrick Mann "From primer to target" available online in a PDF format (free) from Google Books.

Without knowing ALL the test parameters, going from 800 to 4000 rounds might mean something, or it might mean nothing.
IE 800 rounds loaded to proof + pressures and bullet vaporizing velocities all fired in 4 hours VS 4000 rounds at below starting load pressures and velocities fired over the course of a year dosen't proove anything. Also what was the "gauge" for shot out? For the 2nd one did they take erosion over the 1st 100 shots and extrapalate the life expectancy from that?

08 December 2010, 19:23

243winxb

quote:
Originally posted by Skipper488:
quote:
Originally posted by 243winxb:
quote:
Am I going down a wrong road?
Yes. a dangerous one.

Don't leave it at that. Illuminate us.

If for some unknow reason, the wad stays in the barrel, and the next round is fired into it, not good. Other fillers have been known to cause problems also. The wax might make a good bullet lube for a muzzle loader, patch and ball??

08 December 2010, 19:38

carpetman1

I too have that old Phil Sharpe book, but for data I use more modern stuff. I do use my 60's Lyman a lot though.

10 December 2010, 01:07

Paul B

quote:
Originally posted by 243winxb:
quote:
Originally posted by Skipper488:
quote:
Originally posted by 243winxb:
quote:
Am I going down a wrong road?
Yes. a dangerous one.

Don't leave it at that. Illuminate us.
If for some unknow reason, the wad stays in the barrel, and the next round is fired into it, not good. Other fillers have been known to cause problems also. The wax might make a good bullet lube for a muzzle loader, patch and ball??

Assuming the wax wad doesn't melt and it stays in the barrel, itcan/will cause a ringing of the barrel. can you say barrel obstruction? Just ask me how I know.

Damn! Tht's one of the very few times I agree with Hot Core.

Paul B.

10 December 2010, 02:29

Jim C. <><

quote:
since it follows the bullet down the bore and exits after the shot, just how exactly does it supposedly help?

The thin graphite/wax wad was intended for use in straight walled handgun cases. Worked too, but jacketed bullets and better lubes eventually made the practice unnecessary. Obviously the effect was to condition the bore for the next round, not clean up in front of the one it was used with.

Lot's of "young" folk seem to think the world really began just a few days before they were born; not true. Phil Sharpe was one of the early reloading giants on whose shoulders we stand today. In fact, we have NO current equivilents to Mr.s Phil Sharpe, Geo. Nonte, Elmer Keith, Parker Ackley, Warren Page, Earl Naramore, Franklin Mann, Townsen Whelen, Mike Walker, Harvey Donelson, etc. We gunners owe each of those men a vast debt of gratitude and few of us even recognise their names.

Stronics, a lot of the powders and tools used in the thirtys are obviously obsolete due to the continuing evolution but the basics of what you find in his book remain as valid today as when he wrote it.

My Sharpe's "Complete.." book is the last revision he did in '49. It has a very good added section including things that had been learned and developed in the big war of that period.

10 December 2010, 09:18

Mark

I am sure it is available elsewhere, but a PDF of the 1937 version can be found here:

http://www.milsurps.com/showthread.php?t=27114

Be aware that it is almost 100 megs.

12 December 2010, 19:56

stronics

quote:
Lot's of "young" folk seem to think the world really began just a few days before they were born; not true. Phil Sharpe was one of the early reloading giants on whose shoulders we stand today. In fact, we have NO current equivilents to Mr.s Phil Sharpe, Geo. Nonte, Elmer Keith, Parker Ackley, Warren Page, Earl Naramore, Franklin Mann, Townsen Whelen, Mike Walker, Harvey Donelson, etc. We gunners owe each of those men a vast debt of gratitude and few of us even recognise their names.

Jim C
You are correct. These gentlemen were really into trying every angle and testing it.
I don't think we have anyone like it today. My version of the book has the revision.
David