cast bullet loads in the big nitro cases seem very lonely! I know it is supposed to be light load friendly but 45G in a 470 NE is just a drop in a very big bucket.

Heck if I know, but it is un needed. This is my data with the 45/70 and AA5744. The extreme spreads in this case are very good.



45/70 Martini Henry

26" Shilen Barrel


405 LRN 26.5gr AA5744 R-P cases WLR
29-Apr-04 T = 80 °F
Ave Vel = 1294
Std Dev = 14
ES = 40
Low = 1274
High = 1314
N = 15


405 LRN 27.0gr AA5744 R-P cases WLR
24-Mar-04 T = 70 °F
Ave Vel = 1284
Std Dev = 23
ES = 80
Low = 1263
High = 1343
N = 12


405 LRN 27.5gr AA5744 R-P cases WLR
24-Mar-04 T = 70 °F
Ave Vel = 1323
Std Dev = 14
ES = 38
Low = 1307
High = 1345
N = 5




As a comparison, here is 30-06 data with AA5744 and military surplus IMR 4895. Not using fillers in any of these loads. Extreme spreads with AA5744 are much less.

M1903A3 Remington two groove barrel

205 gr .310" sized 311299 mold Gas Check
25.0 grs AA5744 WLR PS74 OAL 3.290"

11-Sep-06 T = 90 °F Gamma Chrony

Ave Vel = 1738
Std Dev = 21
ES = 59
High = 1770
Low = 1711
N = 10



205 gr .310" sized 311299 mold Gas Check
28.5 grs PATS 4895 Lot 7776 washed WLR PS74 OAL 3.290"

11-Sep-06 T = 90 °F Gamma Chrony

Ave Vel = 1687
Std Dev = 51
ES = 186
High = 1753
Low = 1567
N = 13

Stayed within black. Elevation required 450 yards.

Because it ignites well and uniformly without being confined, unlike most other powders of that burn rate. I can tell you that if you do use a filler, you risk ringing the chamber, as a client did on a 40 caliber sharps; on the first shot; 5744 was very new and he thought he would use some of that granulated plastic stuff. Result; ring in the chamber making for some very hard extraction.

IMO, 5744 is a controlled burn propellant compared to black powder and bp substitutes which can be considered an explosive substance.

While not technically a "filler", I have shot a fair amount of 5744 behind the RCBS 500-grain BPS bullet in my #3 Rolling Block. The load was 27 grains and a 1/8" wafer of florist foam pushed down over the powder to hold it against the primer in the rather large 45-70 case.

When I did my part, the Soule rear sight would allow me to cut holes at 100 yards with that load, and I caused no harm whatsoever to the old Remington...

Lucky; yes, 5744 is a true, nitro smokeless powder; not intended to be a black powder substitute on a volume basis.

quote:

I can tell you that if you do use a filler, you risk ringing the chamber, as a client did on a 40 caliber sharps; on the first shot; 5744 was very new and he thought he would use some of that granulated plastic stuff. Result; ring in the chamber making for some very hard extraction.

Oops!

I hate when that happens.

Manufacturer tells you to not use filler! Seems good enough advice to me!

This has to be the funniest reloading mishap picture I have ever seen..

quote:

Originally posted by SlamFire:

quote:

I can tell you that if you do use a filler, you risk ringing the chamber, as a client did on a 40 caliber sharps; on the first shot; 5744 was very new and he thought he would use some of that granulated plastic stuff. Result; ring in the chamber making for some very hard extraction.

Oops!

It has no fuse in it; so perfectly safe. Even then, they have an arming distance so still would be, safe. The danger was when the driver's face hit the roll cage.

This is the first time I have ever heard of this powder. Would this be a good choice for the 577-450 martini with either cast or lighter jacketed bullets.

LOts of folks use 5744 with a filler in the 450-400 and 470...I think Butch Searcy has such a load for it...I shot such a load 10 ir 15 times in my .470 with no ill effects and it was accurate as could be..but Im not much on reduced loads so didn't load any more light loads..Ive used fillers a lot in full power loads in both the .470 and 450-400. It does add a bit of accuracy to most rifles as the powder isn't displaced.

Have been using it for years in my 470 for powder puff practice loads. No filler, no mishaps. I got the load from Butch Searcy and he never mentioned a need for filler. Without checking my notes, my recollection is 35gr and around 1250fps.

Do not use a filler with 5744. I have seen what can happen and it is not good. Read my post above.
Hopper; yes.

I have never used 5744 nor granulated Plastic stuff so I sure defer to others on the warning.
I have used Dacron over 4759 and AA 2015 in the .458 behind cast bullets. And same powders in the 35 Whelen and cast bullets. Dacron positions the powder and maybe protects the base of the bullet more than a true filler like cornmeal or Granulated Plastic. Or maybe it's just magic, not sure but all my cast loads shoot better with Dacron than without. Note that I completely fill the case up to neck then seat the bullet.

Understand the mfg has said "not needed "
Have they actually published: "do not"?


have only used foam wads as filler,in large volume cases with 5744- no granular plastic etc,

several rifles, different calibers, no ill effects
(some were necked cartridges, none below 40 cal)

I have personally, seen a very bad thing happen with a granulated plastic filler and 5744. I do not need a manufacturer's warning not to do that.
Foam is different and I use it with other powders, slower burning. Back in the dark ages we used Kapok as a filler; before they invented the new foam and dacron stuff.
I still would not use it with 5744..

5744 works well with heavy bullets in my 458 socom. I have also used it for reduced loads in a 243 with the Nosier 55 grain SHOT bullet. I don't recall the load off the top of my head, but it was very light. It was given to me by a technician from Accurate and it worked well. I used it in place of the 22 rimfire back when they were unobtainable.

They didn't recommend fillers so I didn't use any. I never had any ignition problems in spite of the small charge.

quote:

Back in the dark ages we used Kapok as a filler; before they invented the new foam and dacron stuff.

same here

Ran 5744 in my 450-400ne with cast bullets, the starting load was around 44gr,F215, so I couldn't double charge it, it ran 400gr bullets to 2050, and a 320gr to the same. Made it very nice to shoot in a Ruger #1 with the 320gr. No need for filler with it, worked fine without.

Just after 5744 came out I was shooting it in a 505 Gibbs with a 600gr cast bullet.

Worked up to a load of 60 grs that clocked at 1300 fps, and shot nice little groups.

That left a lot of air space in the case but never had a bit of problem.

J Wisner

No filler 5744 or Blue Dot, Vetterlie!! roger

I used those foam plugs out of London, bought them at SCI. Never had a problem and they enhanced accuracy with mild loads..I also used Dacron pillow ticking, both come out of the barrel as a plug..I have no problem with a proper filler, not using enough filler is a dangerous practice Im told..Ive used filler off an on for many years in a numbef of guns, some with low vel loads and others with a pretty stiff load...A filler is supposed to raise pressure by about 2000 PSI according to the American Rifleman some many years ago and according to Whites labatories..Hard to say who is right or wrong on these blogs, lots of good infor but certainly some old wives tales floating around.