Lazzeroni brass

13 May 2002, 17:40

elim

Lazzeroni brass

Is there any other place to get Lazzeroni brass other than from Lazzeroni?Namely the 7.21 Tomahawk.At $2.20 each I am amazed he can keep selling it.With the new short mags from Win. and Rem. do you think there is much of a future for Lazzeroni?

13 May 2002, 18:18

DB Bill

I shoot two different Lazzeroni short cartridges and I don't know anywhere else you can buy the brass....expensive yes but it is of high quality and with proper care, periodic annealing, it will last for many, many reloads...I would guess 100 cases would more than last the life of the barrel.

14 May 2002, 06:14

ricciardelli

It never ceases to amaze me that someone will have a $5,000 rifle, and then complain about $2.10 each for brass!

------------------
http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

14 May 2002, 09:01

<Sniper>

You can get the brass from MidwayUSA a little cheaper than Lazzeroni. I have a 7.82 Patriot.

14 May 2002, 09:38

DB Bill

Sniper...what's a little cheaper?

14 May 2002, 09:54

Mike375

Huntingtons have Horneber brass in 500 Jeffrey and 505 Gibbs for $4 each.

Check out some of the stuff on the Westley Richards site as well and the Lazzeroni ammo and cases start to look like once fired 223 cases prices

Mike

14 May 2002, 15:21

<Sniper>

Last time I checked I think Midway was about $2 cheaper per 20. I think you have to have a minimum order of $40 though to not
get an extra charge.

[This message has been edited by Sniper (edited 05-14-2002).]

14 May 2002, 17:08

Fiftydriver

Elim,

I shoot the 7.21 Tomahawk in an Encore Pistol barrel made by VVCG using a Lilja barrel blank I had. It wshoots great but the rigidness of the Encore limits the level of loads I can use to about halfway between starting and max loads.

As far as brass, I have seen it around in other places but not that much and often its only for a limited time.

I have also noticed that the last couple boxes of 7.21 brass I have used had very poor body wall consistency. For example, one side of the body wall would measure 0.035" just ahead of the web while the other side measures nearly 0.065". These were virgin, unfired case. After firing a few times, these case began to show sign of case head seperation.

I contacted Mr. Lazzeroni and he basically said I was flat wrong and that none of his brass could possibly have that poor of concentricity. He added that I needed to learn how to measure the body wall correctly before I made untrue claims and that I was just attepting to get free brass.

I replied with measurements from the 17 rem, 221 rem, 220 Swift, 223 Rem, 22-250, 243, 6mm-284, 25-06, 270, 7mmBR,7mm08, 284Win, 7mm Rem Mag, 7mmSTW, 300WSM, 300 RUM, 375 RUM and even the 50 BMG. None of them had a difference of more then .010". Compared to the 0.030" for his 7.21 brass.

I even measured some 7.82 Warbird brass which was very good but he simply said I was again wrong and that the problem was with my Encore barrel.

I replied again that these measurements were on virgin cases!!

He never replied.

I will never own or recommend a Lazzeroni round again, great performance but to much ego.

I will use the WSM case now for all my projects.

Just my experience!!

50

15 May 2002, 11:56

sonofagun

Hey Fifty:

I suggest you cut one of the bad cases in two (crosswise) at the worst spot and send it to Lazz. - THEN see what he has to say. Also photograph it and post it here for us all to see.

15 May 2002, 17:34

Fiftydriver

Sonofagun,

Thats a good idea but only for those here on this board, Mr. Lazzeroni has no desire or willingness to admit a quality control problem with his brass.

In my talks with him I also stated that his rounds were never intended for the Encore nor would he ever encourage them to be chambered in the Encore.

The Funny thing is that on his web site there is a photo section where there are at least three different hunters using the Lazzeroni rounds in Encore pistols and rifles. If this isn't an endorsement I don;t know what is.

Let me see if I can get one of these cases sectioned to show you how bad this problem really is.

Good Shooting!!!

50

15 May 2002, 19:51

DB Bill

Fiftydriver.......your experience with John Lazzeroni certainly doesn't jive with mine. I've found John and his staff to be friendly, open and helpful and certainly willing to discuss anything about his cartridges. Let me give you an example! I had John make me the first .375 based on his short Patriot case and when I got it I couldn't duplicate the velocity he had gotten when he tested the rifle and broke in the barrel. I called John and after some discussion he ask that I send him several pieces of once-fired but unsized brass, some brass that I had resized but not reloaded. He loaded them with the components he had suggested and sent them back to me....I of course pulled several apart to check the powder and load plus I measured them to see how my own loads compared and they were spot on. Took the ammo from John to the range and ran them thru my Oehler and got within 15 fps of what John had told me I should get (this was 100+ fps faster than my loads). I was using the same powder (RL15), the same amount of powder, the same bullet, the same primer, the same OAL etc etc...after another phone call John ask me to check the lot of my RL15 and it was different from his......I tried another lot and duplicated his loads. I was stunned as I had never had that kind of difference between lots of powder.....my original lot showed pressure signs at 2450 fps and the new lot showed no signs of pressure well past 2550 fps. I call that service! However, I should note that I wasn't confrontational and was only trying to solve a problem.

16 May 2002, 08:13

Fiftydriver

DB Bill,

It is interesting that you say what you say because Mr. Lazzeroni also stated that if I wanted one of his rounds then I would be wise to purchase of of the rifles that he either made or had made for his comany. The then said that he would know exactly what the problem was if any. But since I had a custom barrel made from a custom shop, I was basically s.o.l. and live and learn next time.

I guess the purchase of a $114.00 set of dies and a $120.00 worth of brass doesn't intital me to get the same service as someone that gets one of his rifles. Personally I do not feel that his rifles are worth the +$5000 price tag, especially when they need to be fed special, very expensive bullets to reach his stated velocities. My brother in fact has a Sako in the 7.82 Warbird and if he drives a 180 gr Ballistic Silvertip to near 3500 fps with a H-1000 or R-25, he gets cases with enlarged primer pockets on the first shot, infact primers will fall out.

My Rem M700 in 300 RUM will drive the same bullet to 3435 fps with H-1000 and brass has lasted for 5 loadings. Rifle cost $499.99 and brass is about 1/5th the price of the Lazzeroni. Also I get 3/8"-1/2" groups with my 300 RUM. That $4500 saved has purchased me alot of guns that will shoot as well or better then Mr. Lazzeronis rigs.

I would agree that his staff is quite helpful, have always enjoyed talking with them, must have caught him on a bad couple of days. Of course you didn't question the quality of his products, try that and see how nice he is.

If I spend the money, I want the quality and performance, there are better deals on the market then his stuff with equal performance

16 May 2002, 08:55

DB Bill

Fiftydriver...I guess I bought mine back when they were quite a bit cheaper than they are now....$5000 is a lot of money. Of my two Lazzeroni's only the .375 was built by John, the other, a Patriot, was built by a custom 'smith suggested by John.

Also, yours is the first negative comment I've heard about any Lazzeroni product with respect to quality...have heard a lot of negatives about price and that is a personal and subjective decision each purchaser (or non-purchaser) must make. Is any custom rifle that much better than a good factory rifle with a few dollars worth of tuning? No I don't believe it is but .......! Ever wonder why so many drive Mercedes or Jaguar or BMW ...what more do they do than a Chevy or Ford?

18 May 2002, 14:39

<Mike Dettorre>

I have always found John L to be quite pleasant to deal with and friendly. I had a Rem 700 built into 8.59 Galaxy and the cartridge performs right as advertised.

Fifty? is Vaughn anywhere near Butte?

------------------
MED

The sole purpose of a rifle is to please its owner

[This message has been edited by Mike Dettorre (edited 05-20-2002).]

18 May 2002, 14:47

<Sniper>

I recently had Virgin Valley build an Encore barrel in 7.82 Lazzeroni Patriot. I went with a 27" barrel. I have just started working a load for it with the 165 grain Hornady boat tail. I'll let you guys know what I end up with as far as velocity/accuracy.

20 May 2002, 09:58

<Sniper>

Got out today and did a little shooting. I have been using IMR4831 in my Patriot.

Best group, 1", with the 165 grain Hornady was with 67 grains around 3050 fps at 10' from the muzzle.

The load range from Lazzeroni was from 63-69 grains. 63-68 grains all functioned well in my Encore. When I fired the 69 grain load the shells had minor resistance extracting. Looks like 67 will be the one with that powder/bullet combo.

20 May 2002, 15:05

Fiftydriver

Fifty? is Vaughn anywhere near Butte?

[/B][/QUOTE]

Vaughn is about 2 1/2 hours north of Butte. Its about 10 minutes out of Great Falls.

50