Okay, so what is reloading all about?

Why do I ask? Because once again I have noticed all kinds of messages being posted by people looking for short-cuts and "cheap" supplies.

Reloading is NOT about either.

The basic premises behind manufacturing your own ammunitions are:
#1) It is a hobby, something you enjoy during your off time;
#2) It allows you to custom match your ammunition to each firearm, obtaining the highest level of accuracy possible;
#3) It allows you to expieriment with components not available from factory ammunition manufacturers;
#4) It allows you to tailor your ammunition for a specific purpose.

If you are reloading to save money, you are way off base! The cost of reloading equipment and supplies will more than supply the average shooter with factory ammunition for a lifetime!

So let's quit with the, "Where can I get the lowest prices on primers (or any other component)?" type questions. Buy your supplies from your locally owned private dealer. Sure he may charge $1 a thousand more than the "cheapest" place around, but the conversation, instruction and friendship is well worth it!

Also, how about quit the, "Duh, what load works good in your gun?" type questions. Each firearm is an individual! I have 3 .22-250 rifles, consecutive serial numbers, and they each have their own special load! So what Joe Blow uses will not, most likely, be the best for your firearm! Experiment, test, and enjoy!

One last item is the "Where can I find..." type question. Geesh...you have a computer...search for it the same as we all do! Recently in one of the forums someone asked where they coud find a particular item. Well, I did a quick Yahoo search and came up with over 150 good links! Was it too difficult for that user to do the same?

There, now I have that off my chest!

Reloading is what we want to make of it.

Total science, total play........somewhere in between those two. Different for everybody.

I reload because I enjoy seeing a rifle find a load that it absolutely loves.

Takes time, effort, care.

After I'm sure I have found that wondrous load, I usually sell the rifle along with its data. That is, except in a few special cases, where I don't part with a certain rifle because of my love for the damned inanimate object.

To each reloader, let his reason be what he wants. Hobby/Science; Hunting/Bench Rest.

Wow, rather hostile forum.

Why I reload? Simply because I want to! I get exactly the load I need and want, and I learn a lot about ammo, ballistics and shooting I otherwise would not know.

It�s also that pride of making my own tools for hunting - like the savage making his own spear. And in the inner heart all true hunters are savages...

fritz

ricciardelli,
I agree with you that some posts lead to nowhere/no response, but these generally fall off quickly.
I also agree that every rifle is different, but sometimes certian loads will correspond.
I also agree with you on your reasons #1-4 but...

I RELOAD TO SAVE MONEY!!!!!!!!
I RELOAD TO SAVE MONEY!!!!!!!!
I RELOAD TO SAVE MONEY!!!!!!!!

The first centerfire rifle I purchased on my own was a .220 Swift (I had already been given an old 30-06 'deer gun'). I looked into the cost of new shells and found out that reloading was waaaaay cheaper (I also planned on reloading soon, but hey this was my first ammo burner ;-). And for a pistol, I had a .45LC six shooter. Let's price out 500 rounds for each gun...

NEW=
.220- $17.95 a 20rd box/no tax
.220- 500rds for sight in and a prarie dog hunt
.220- 25 boxes x $17.95= $448.75

.45LC- $170 bulk. Loaded with cast bullets.

RELOAD=
.220 Swift* 500 Rem Brass- $124.99
3lbs of powder- $44.97
500 primers- $10
500 Nos BT- $60
.220 Swift Total= **$238.96**

.45LC* 500 Rem Brass- $77.99
1lb of powder- $14.99
500 primers- $10
500 cast bullets- $32.99
.45LC Total= **$135.97**

RCBS Rock Chucker Reloading Kit- $249.99
.220 Swift Dies- $25.99
.220 SwiftShell holder- $5.49
.45LC Dies- $26.99
.45LC Shell holder- $5.49
Reload Gear Total- **$314.95**

1000rds NEW AMMO-$448.75 + $170= $618.75
1000rds RELOADED AMMO AND KIT & DIES- $238.96 + $135.97 + $314.95= $689.88

**** For a difference of $71.13 more********
I am not counting 'rent' on brass because I did the comparison on the basis that the brass would be thrown away. But if I did...
1000rds NEW AMMO FOR NEXT YEAR= $618.75 (Same as previous year)
1000rds RELOADED AMMO FOR NEXT YEAR= $172.95
***FOR A SAVINGS OF $445.80 THE NEXT YEAR***

Now if I add another caliber, especially a 'wildcat' one, it can save a LOT more.

This is just to show that I would shoot a LOT LESS if I didn't reload for:
.50 BMG
.45-70
.416 Rigby
.300 Win Mag
.30-06
.220 Swift
.223
(.500 A-Square & .600 Nitro Express on order)

Most of your comments are correct for 'average shooters' but on average, WERE NOT AVERAGE ;-)

Not to flame you, just to show another side :-)

[This message has been edited by BMG (edited 09-29-2001).]

I agree with Fritz. It's a vital part of the hunt for me, and a craft that gives me satisfaction.

Dear Ricciardelli.....I agree with much of your post.I began reloading about 35 years ago and although I initially started it to save money,I've probably spent much more overall when factoring in equipment,supplies plus the fact that I simply shoot a lot more than I would if I were a non-handloader.....However,try to bear in mind that many of the questions that you may find irritating are often coming from people who are relatively new to this game and they're still trying to find their way in the dark....There are many things I'm inexperienced at and I'm pretty sure that some of my questions are going to sound dumb to someone.

Interesting question. I can think of three "reasons" I reload.

1. I enjoy the reloading itself.
2. I do not see it as saving money, but as being able to shoot more and stay within a "shooting budget".
3. The reloads are more accurate.
MM

I reload because I never learned how to knit.

Besides, I think that man knitting looks funny.

and...

Having a lot of empty brass around bothers me.

Why do I shoot? to create empty brass.

Because we are stark raving lunatics ;-)

I get so sick and tired of economic arguments being made for reasons why one should or shouldn't persue a course of action.

I reload because it is an extension of my shooting and hunting, but most emportantly, it provides a great deal of enjoyment, if it didn't, I wouldn't, plain and simple.

As far as it saving money, in a strict sense no, but in a relative sense, yes. If I didn't reload, there are many rounds I simply wouldn't shoot, because factory ammo either isn't available, or is so hideously exspensive, there is no way I'd shoot it.

The best example of why I reload is my beloved Ruger .480. Ain't no way I'd shoot a handgun weekly that cost $1 a pop for factory ammo. I cast my own, and assemble a practice load that costs me $2 for 50 rds, yeah, way cheaper then factory, and more importantly, I can afford to shoot the gun often enough to become proficient with it.

Is reloading for everyone?, absolutely not. Are some folks painfully lazy, and want to be led by the nose, and don't want to have to think for themselves, yeah, and I don't know if its the change in the whether, or the situation in our country or not, but I've been kinda bitchy with those folks too.

Ask thoughtful questions, and you'll recieve thoughtful answers.

Excellent replies...each and every one!

But I strongly suggest that you do not say that a man knitting looks funny to Rosie Greer! (Maybe before your time?)

As for the cost containment issue...you have posted some very impressive numbers, however, I just checked and .220 Swift ammo is going for around $12.47 a box here, so that will lower your factory costs somewhat. And if you sell your once-fire brass for 5-cents each, that will bring the cost down another $1 a box.

But, for the guy with one rifle, and one handgun, the initial expense of just the equipment will more than pay for all the ammo he will shoot in a lifetime, not to mention the cost of the supplies, most of which will be used when he is working up a load!

I was not being hostile...just frustrated by seeing the same questions over and over. How many times do we have to read, "Which gun should I buy?", or, "What bullet should I use?", or "What is the most accurate load?", or even, "I plan on shooting prairie dogs at 5,000 yards with a .218 Bee, what load should I use?"

Most of the questions asked here, and on some of the other forums, have been answered or ignored several times over! Or could have been answered by the poster had he/she taken the time to do a little basic research.

Good question, seems to take up more time than I have lately.

Well I doubt too many people will say they reload just because of the satisfaction of reloading. Personally (and I'm always right except when my wife tells me I'm not :-)) I think there are 3 reasons everyone of us reloads.

Now some here have bottomless wells of money and some of us don't so economics has a real factor for some and none for others.
I've been reloading for about 17 years so whatever my press and scales etc cost has been well and truly amortised.
Reloading components is more cost effective.
Reloading from components is more conducive to accuracy, therefore it is again more cost effective as more accurate shooting means less shots fired for a hit which means less rounds shot.
Reloading is quite an enjoyable task and measn you spend less on another pasttime, meaning more savings.

Therefore the moral is reloading does save money :-))

Also of course some people shop around. Obviously Ric old chap you have more money than some, but a few dollars here and there actually means somthing to some...heck I work in a gunshop sometimes, and there's those with and those without and you may need to take a deep breath before you jump down peoples throats just because a few bucks here and there means nothing to you.

I reload for two reasons, the first is that I like doing my own hunting and competition ammo. It is a good hobby and means I dont have to listen to my wife. The second reason is that one of my favourite pastimes is black powder cartridge rifle shooting and you cant buy ammo for that anyway.

I DO NOT Reload to save money. I promise you the most money saving thing I could do is buy what ammo I need for hunting and let it go at that.
I spend far too much time and money working on just the right combination, so that I can have 20 rounds that are perfect.

SO perfect that they go 50 fps faster , and shoot a group 1/4" smaller than any factory load.

But when I shoot an animal, it makes no difference at all.

BUT I have spent $100+ to get that combo, let along the gas and time going to the range.

But it is fun and what I like to do. That is the only reason that makes sense.

Out of necessity. Does your local gun shop stock 9.3X64? Not around here they don't. I also save a little $ reloading the .460's and 416's. I have had my reloading press, an old rock chucker, and most of the other stuff for 15 years. About the only equipment I buy now are dies. On top of that, it's fun.
Cobalt

I reload to save money. I shoot about 1,000 rounds a year in .308 alone. That is 50 boxes of 20, which cost about $13.00 a box at Wal-Mart. That is $650.00. If all I shot was factory .308 I wouldn't be able to shoot all of my other calibers. My reloads shoot at least as good as factory and if they out shoot factory, so much the better.

And yes, just like I shop around to where I can buy everyday items cheaper, I shop around to see where I can buy my reloading stuff cheaper.

I reload because I like it. That's all. If I didn't like it, I wouldn't do it. Can anyone argue with that.

------------------
"A school of Tuna led by a Shark can beat a school of Sharks led by a Tuna"

Most divorces are based on disagreements over small matters, so are most murders.

I've been trying to decide between the 270 win and the 30/06.Which one should I buy????Also...I've been having a hard time deciding between the winchester,remington,ruger or sako...Do you recomend a push feed or controlled feed????What about the bullet???Which one will be good for coyotes and moose????

Quite obviously an age-old question, for which there's only one answer: buy both. They are different, interesting, and good investments. The Rugers and Remingtons are both excellent rifles.....

Paladin

I got into reloading after I bought a .22 Hornet. It never occured to me that a box of .22 ammo could cost $25!!! (I might not have bought the gun if I knew how much the ammo cost!)
Anyway, since I also bought a Ruger, which shot much, much worse than any .22 rimfire I ever owned, the reloading evolved into a quest for accuracy. And as I learned more & more, it's become a hobby and a source of pride in accomplishment to come up with a load that maximizes the accuracy of the rifle I'm shooting.
I reload for the Hornet, .243 Winchester, some for my M1A (it's not for savings, obviously...surlpus ammo is cheaper than reloading this stuff), and my new acquisition is a .17 Remington. These little beauties cost about $19 per box of 20, so it's WAY cheaper to reload, plus there's the accuracy factor. My reloads for this rifle are already giving groups 1/2 the size of factory ammo.
Regards, George.

I have a very low cost yet effective set of reloading equipment, a lyman press, a hornady scale, whatever was affordable to me, not much more than about $100.00-$150.00 into the whole ball of wax. When I first decided to start getting reloading equipment I did it with the idea of getting my bullets for less but the fact is that now that bullets are more affordable to me I tend to shoot more. No matter. Your right, its not really ecinomic except in certian circumstances, to me its something I enjoy, and I have a much wider selection of bullets which makes my guns more versatile, more accurate and specific and thus a more worthwhile investment.

Perhaps another reason for reloading might be because one takes their hunting seriously. Ever had to settle for the loads that a store happened to have left, or had to waste valuable hunting time trying to resupply? I have. But not since I began reloading.

I dont see anything wrong with sharing reloading data either, some combinations simply work better than others and not everyone cares about microscopic anomolies.

[This message has been edited by Wstrnhuntr (edited 09-30-2001).]

God damn it I hate when my post gets tossed because I forgot to enter my name

Dear PowderBurns......I sometimes forget my name too.They say that memory is the second thing to go.And I forget what the other stuff is.

Ricciardelli:

This is one of the funniest posts I have seen in quite some time. It's really a leg slapper and most of the guys gave a very humorous and good natured response.

For the most part you are right on with your observations. But there are some exceptions which goes to prove, once again, that all inclusive blanket statements come back to haunt.

I think that what you are experiencing, tiring of the same old shXX, different day syndrome, is burnout. But you will observe that the membership isn't stagnant. There are very few really "old timers". Most stay around a while then move on someplace else or just disappear. So there is a constant supply of new comers who come on board and ask the same questions that were just debated for a month.

I think many ask the questions they do to promote a conversation. The whole purpose of this type forum is communication and interaction, camaraderie, banter, fellowship.

It's a whole lot more fun, entertining and educational than going out into the woods and talking to the trees.

Kendall

Grin....

I kinda like talking to a tree, myself! You see, there aren't any of them critters up here where I live, so if I find one, the conversation is usually very interesting.

As for the new-comers asking a question, there is a little area in the upper right corner of my screen which gives the user the ability of searching to see if the question he has on his mind has already been asked....

Are we there yet? Are we there yet? Are we there yet?

ricciardelli,

I do it for economy. Not first & foremost, but that does enter into it. If we compare like with like and consider handloads equivalent to premium-grade manufactured ammunition, then the economic arguments stack up well.

In this country, a round of good quality 6.5x55 costs roughly the equivalent of one dollar forty. Reloads are half that.

Also, in the UK we are limited to how many rounds of ammunition we can have. No such rules currently apply to components, so I can always be certain I will have ammunition available when I want it - because I have a good supply of components.

It's also another way of being involved with a sport for which I have a real passion.

So, bottom line. I save money, get a better product, enjoy it as a hobby. AND I get around some silly rules.

Patrick

I reload because turning necks is the only therapy better than trigger therapy...., and I need all I can get.

Jagtip:

270
Remington 700
Push feed
130 gr. Sierra boattail
130 for coyotes, 150 Nosler Partition for moose

Dear LE270....I've changed my mind and decided to go with the 17 kolibri.It's a necked down 25 auto case.

Similar question to auto enthusiasts would be "why do we rebuild our own engines". Basic answer is so we know what's in there , that it's been put together correctly, and we can do something about it if something doesn't seem just right. It CAN save money, at the cost of time. I have to wonder. I've got a LOT of inventory, some of which I may never use.

Overall, for me it adds an immeasurably enjoyable dimension to the hobby.

wes

I've found that I can turn my neck and exercise my trigger finger in a more enjoyable manner...like wimmen...but they can be much more expensive than reloading!

Wes...

Funny you should mention rebuilding or modifying automobiles...have you seen my Bronco?

Reloading dosn,t save any money. You just experiment and shoot twicw as much, and have alot of fun doing it.

"As for the cost containment issue...you have posted some very impressive numbers, however, I just checked and .220 Swift ammo is going for around $12.47 a box here, so that will lower your factory costs somewhat. And if you sell your once-fire brass for 5-cents each, that will bring the cost down another $1 a box.

But, for the guy with one rifle, and one handgun, the initial expense of just the equipment will more than pay for all the ammo he will shoot in a lifetime, not to mention the cost of the supplies, most of which will be used when he is working up a load!"

For the average shooter, you are correct. However, most shooters here on this forum are not average shooters. Most of my family members are avid hunters, yet most will shoot less than 100 centerfire rounds a year. On the shotgun side, most will shoot 1000 shotgun rounds at clay's (skeet league & trap) and 300 rounds at birds. However, I will shoot between 5,000 - 7,000 rounds of centerfire ammo per year (400-600 rds per month of pistol & rifle), and only 700 or so shotgun rounds at clay & feather. So you can see that cost savings are a big deal to me.

If you can find factory loaded ammo, with premium components (notice I used Nos BT as a bullet choice in my original figures) for $12.47 a box, then friend, my hat is off to you.
A quick search on the net for .220 Swift ammo with a BT bullet (Nos BT, CT Silver Tip, Hornady, Sierra, etc - not a copper jacketed SP) showed prices from $17.99 - $21.99 ( http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jhtml?id=0006404212992a&navAction=push&navCount=3&indexId=cat20839&podId=0006404&catalogCode=XB&parentId=cat20839& parentType=index&_DARGS=%2Fcabelas%2Fen%2Fcommon%2Fcatalog%2Fitem-link.jhtml_A&_DAV=0006404212992a and http://www.theoutdoorscenter.com/OUTDOORCenters_Storefront/asp_StoreFront/FrameSet.asp ).

Also, who am I going to sell my brass to?

Hey, I agree with you that cost savings is NOT the main reason I reload, but it does play a MAJOR role. I would not shoot 25% of what I do now OR in the calibers I do, and thus not be nearly as proficent. Also, I said I agree with you that the variety of ammo I can shoot is far greater when I reload. The satisfaction of outshooting my shooting friends at the range is there also.

Dont get me wrong, I agree with you on most of your issues, but the cost savings ties a lot of them together. Have a good one.

ps. What is the best bullet for deer at 50yds with a 30-06? ;-)

BMG...

It depends on how well the deer can shoot...

Touch`e ;-)

Rich,

I load most cartridges for one or another of the reasons you mention.

However, if you do the arithmetic on my cost vs. factory price of .416 Rigby, you will see that it is definitely about money. I could throw away once-fired cases and be ahead after two or three boxes. With new brass and 940 primers left over.

End of discussion.

This is my second reply to the question, and much shorter:

Because it is the only thing I do that allows me to feel like a mad scientist.

OH YEAH!!!