405 Winchester load data

03 November 2002, 06:39

To whom it may concern,

I received the following load data from Hornady regarding loads for the 405 Winchester.

The rifle is a new production M1895 USRAC.
Brass: Hornady
Primers: WLR
Barrel twist: 1:14
COL: 3.085"
Bullet: Hornady 300 gr soft point

Velocity: 1800 1900 2000 2100 2200 2250
Rel 7 36.4 39.4 42.5 45.5
H322 41.1 43.0 44.9
XMR2015 39.8 42.7 45.6 48.4 51.3
IMR3031 41.2 44.3 47.4 50.6
VIHT N133 43.0 45.4 47.8 50.2 52.6
H4895 44.9 47.3 49.7 52.2 54.6 55.8

Of course it is stated that you must start with the minimum load and slowly work your way up.

Casey

[ 11-02-2002, 21:40: Message edited by: CASEY ]

03 November 2002, 07:33

DaveC

Casey,
I would suggest that you follow what Hornady said.
I cannot comment on the discrepency between the info that I had given you and what Hornady has provided. Get a chrono and compare their suggested loading data to see if it matches up to the claimed velocity.
For your info, I ran the info that I gave you through quickload and it estimated 30968 psi at 2150 fps for the low end and 40153 psi at 2346 psi for the high end using DKT 300 gr bullets.
I have found in a .450AK & .45-70 that quickload over-estmates velocity and pressure a little bit in straight walled cases.
Please post your results so that we can all learn from it.
Thanks,
DMC

03 November 2002, 10:34

POSEUR

DaveC,

I wasn't flaming you. I was merely sharing the load data that Hornady provided. If I can "scare up" a chronograph I will chrony the loads and share them. I am not sure when I will have an opportunity to do this, though.

Casey

05 November 2002, 02:53

DaveC

No offense taken, I'm just a bit surprised.
However, I missed one thing, case capacity.
Can anyone out there give me the weight for an unprimed .405 case from Bertram & Hornady?

Thanks.

05 November 2002, 03:09

jeffeosso

quote:
Originally posted by DaveC:
I have found in a .450AK & .45-70 that quickload over-estmates velocity and pressure a little bit in straight walled cases.
Please post your results so that we can all learn from it.
Thanks,
DMC

Dave,
I have found exactly the same with both those rounds, and the 450 marlin, as well. it seems that ql might have a case capacity issue, like ti did with the 376 steyr. Anyway, i had found it did about 100fps faster, and (guessing here) 7500psi more pressure than we see in the 450ak and 45/70. the marlin was more like 150 fps, but the pressure (guessing) was okay.

If I had to choose, though, I would rather it tell me the pressure is higher than it is, rather than lower. Beats the heck outta a 1894 that you can't lever open.

jeffe

06 November 2002, 00:42

<577 Robert>

Hi Jeffe,

I use ql for a couple of years now and find out the same with all my straight wall cases. Because I corrected the case capacity of each cartridge to the exact amount of water the case can take, I don’t think the problem is the capacity. In my opinion the reason for the higher calculated pressure and velocity against what we obtain, lays in the fact that the powder burn more efficiently in bottle necked cases than in straight shells. The powder data base is related to the modern case means bottle necked, I think because of safety reasons, because it is totally true what you mention it is better to have a higher calculated pressure than a too low one.

There is a possibility to customise the powder data. Whenever I got some measured velocity and pressure data of my own loaded cartridges, I copy the used powder type to a new name and ad “straight case” to it and correct the powder data to the measured results. I use the field “ratio of specific heats” to do that, but I must admit that the use of this straight case data for bottle neck case contains some risk. So keep it separate, be very careful not to mix that with the original powder for bottle neck cases. You have to use that data with a good portion of reloading knowledge and common sense.

Best regards
Robert

06 November 2002, 04:35

DaveC

Jeffeoso & 577 Robert,
You are right, it is better to have it show a higher than actual pressure & velocity than the other way around.
I think the issue with a straight case is that QL is designed to include the expansion ratio of the powder in a case that is larger than bore diameter (more powder burning over a longer time period) thereby funneling more gas into the bore. Where as a straight case is basically bore diameter and there is no funneling effect and a smaller expansion ratio. It is apparent that most straight cases are better off with the faster rate powders to compensate for the low expansion ratio of the case and bottle necked cases get more benefit from slower powders due to the higher expansion ratio of the case.
I'm not an engineer and am probably not explaining it correctly, but that is the way I see it.