Reloading ? (Pole)

19 March 2002, 15:59

<gj>

Reloading ? (Pole)

If there was a company that could ship to you in small, say 5,10or 20 round lots of the powder and bullets you are wanting to try out for load testing would you use the service?

Example:

10-.257 nosler 85gr blist tips

10-54gr. of H-4350 total 540 gr of powder.

Cost for powder, bullets and shipping:

Total= $16.00 shipped.

Comparison: From a local store

1-lb H-4350 $18.90

1box 100ct. $20.99

Total/tax $39.98

Vote by responding, if you would use this service.

Keep in Mind these are NOT loaded. cartridges!

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www.moaammo.com

[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-20-2002).]

19 March 2002, 17:43

<ultramag>

I could be interested, but I think I would like a little larger quantities.

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May your chambers be true to your bores.

19 March 2002, 18:07

McCray

Does the price quoted include the hazmat shipping surcharge?

If someone sold bullets, especially premium, open stock, I might be interested.

Joe.

19 March 2002, 18:27

ricciardelli

Not only "no", but "hell no"...

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http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

19 March 2002, 18:44

Wildcatter

Why "hell no" ricciardelli?

I can count probably 10 powders and at least as many bullets I'd like to try in that kind of quantity. My 338-06 and my soon to be 500 Dark Continent would apprieciate such a service.

-Catter

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Shoot the largest caliber you can shoot well, and practice , practice, practice.

20 March 2002, 04:23

dan belisle

Catter-just out of curiosity, what is a "500 Dark Continent"? (love the name) - Dan

20 March 2002, 05:32

rick3foxes

I like the idea of trying a few bullets of a particular type to see how my rifle likes them, but I would never, never, never buy powder outside of a factory sealed, factory labeled container, regardless of price.

Rick.

20 March 2002, 05:45

alleyyooper

I like the idea with bullets, but am kind of leary of the powder thing also.

[This message has been edited by alleyyooper (edited 03-19-2002).]

20 March 2002, 06:04

Dino32HR

I would love the idea of being able to acquire smaller quantities of powders for a nominal charge to try out instead of having to spend $17 to $22 for a pound of powder than may prove to be useless to me.

However, I would have severe concerns if that powder was supplied by anyone other than than manufacturer. The powder companies are experts at this, I wouldn't want to put my trust in a 3rd party supplier that could potentially mis-label a powder. Mistakes happen in packaging and shipping all the time in many things. Powder type is NOT one I would want to experience.

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-Dino
IHMSA #56176
A man said to the universe: "Sir, I exist!" "However," replied the universe, "That fact has not created in me a sense of obligation." - Stephen Crane

20 March 2002, 06:15

RogerK

I would use it in a second. I have boxes of bullets that didn't work out. Money wasted. Hazmet would be a problem, but bullets shouldn't be.

20 March 2002, 07:27

<eldeguello>

I concur with Ultramag, quantities would have to be bigger-say 20 bullets, etc., in order to conduct meaningful tests.

20 March 2002, 11:58

<gj>

Guys no hazzmat fee would be needed.and please dont ask how but it is shipped leagally.

Bullets and powder would be labled.

And as far as powder mixup very unlikly as it would be all done personally by me.

It would be more possible for a mix up from the factory than from me.

Quantity options do inclued 20.

But if you buy many more than say thirty it becomes more cost effective to by 100 and 1LB.

Bullets and powder would at first consist of:

Hornady,Sierra, nosler, and Speer. such as all match bullets.
(blist tips,both target and hunting).

Barns,swift,and custom bullets would come later because of there huge prices to stock.

Powders:
All Hodgdon,Vitavouy,Alliant,Winchester, and Accurate arms.
Also possibly Dupont IMIs if requested?

Bullets only is also an option.

I will only know whats wanted and needed by your opinions.

Thanks gj.

www.moaammo.com

[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-20-2002).]

20 March 2002, 12:51

Paul H

No, I'm too much of a tinkerer, and will shoot up the box of bullets, one way or another. I also find that if I stay with the popular powders, they tend to find a good deal of use on many cartridges.

20 March 2002, 13:22

grandpao

quote:
Originally posted by gj:
If there was a company that could ship to you in small, say 5,10or 20 round lots of the powder and bullets you are wanting to try out for load testing would you use the service?
Example:
10-.257 nosler 85gr blist tips
10-54gr. of H-4350 total 540 gr of powder.
Cost for powder, bullets and shipping:
Total= $16.00 shipped.

Comparison: From a local store
1-lb H-4350 $18.90
1box 100ct. $20.99
Total/tax $39.98
Vote by responding, if you would use this service.

I think not

20 March 2002, 14:26

<dr280>

NO....
There are only two people that I trust to reload rounds for me... my shooting partner who has 15 years experience, and myself. Nothing against your offering a service, it sounds like a good thing, but liability would be a nightmare. Not to mention the blame that would go with a round not performing as expected. For example, say I order 10 rounds of IMR 4831, 57 grains, with Nosler 140 BT, with WIN primers, for my 280.
Do I need to tell you that I shoot a Ruger #1, and that my overall length is 3.355?
What if yours don't shoot as well as mine? Do I have any reason to bitch? Not trying to be an a-hole, just realizing that some will try to take advantage- and some may even go further- claiming one of your rounds ruined a rifle, or worse hurt someone. I would like to see- and would use a service that could provide smaller quantities of powder or bullets, but I would have final assembly. There was a post not too long ago about reloading for a co-worker, the overwhelming response was -no way in hell-. Sort of the same thing here in my mind.
Anyway- again- not being an ass- just my 2 pennies. Dave

20 March 2002, 15:14

fredj338

I like the idea of buying small quantities if bullets, I have often thought this could be turned into a hobby business. The powder thing is definetly a no-no. I think a better idea is for all of us to lobby powder companies into making "short" cans of say 1/2# for experimenting.

20 March 2002, 15:24

growler

I would be interested in small quantities of bullets. Powder, I don,t think so.
dr280 I don't think anyone is considering preloaded rounds only components.

20 March 2002, 15:39

<gj>

quote:
Originally posted by dr280:
NO....
There are only two people that I trust to reload rounds for me... my shooting partner who has 15 years experience, and myself. Nothing against your offering a service, it sounds like a good thing, but liability would be a nightmare. Not to mention the blame that would go with a round not performing as expected. For example, say I order 10 rounds of IMR 4831, 57 grains, with Nosler 140 BT, with WIN primers, for my 280.
Do I need to tell you that I shoot a Ruger #1, and that my overall length is 3.355?
What if yours don't shoot as well as mine? Do I have any reason to bitch? Not trying to be an a-hole, just realizing that some will try to take advantage- and some may even go further- claiming one of your rounds ruined a rifle, or worse hurt someone. I would like to see- and would use a service that could provide smaller quantities of powder or bullets, but I would have final assembly. There was a post not too long ago about reloading for a co-worker, the overwhelming response was -no way in hell-. Sort of the same thing here in my mind.
Anyway- again- not being an ass- just my 2 pennies. Dave

dr280: Please re read entire post.

Keep in Mind these are NOT loaded. cartridges!

If it helps any I have over 25yrs reloading
And have yet to make a mistake.

At least one that showed up!

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www.moaammo.com

20 March 2002, 15:51

p dog shooter

I know for me that 20 bullets of one type would hardly be enough to work up a vel. on a bullet let alone test it for group. My the time you would try a couple of differant powders and charges they would be long gone. Wouldn't interist me.

20 March 2002, 17:07

Nutoy

Not to long ago I would have said, "Thats a good idea". But now I would have to say probably not. You say "What do I do with these bullets and powder that didn't work so well". I use them for fire forming new brass.
I'm sure I didn't patent that idea.
*Nut*

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My wife said "If you load ONE more box of ammo, I'm gonna take the dog and leave"
God, I'm sure gonna miss that dog.

21 March 2002, 01:30

Major Caliber

I only buy in large bulk

21 March 2002, 02:03

<Dan in Wa>

Might have an idea there. My gun room is full of boxes of bullets with only 20 used. Also have powder that I'll probably never use again. Oh well, it will give the wife something to sell at her garage sale when I kick the bucket.

21 March 2002, 02:37

old4x4

Absolutely....5 or so years ago there was a guy who was selling small quantity lots of bullets, but he went out of the business. I was able to work up loads for all kinds of bullet styles and weights! I wish he was still in business. Swift bullets would be on the top of my list. $55.00 for a box of bullets only to find out that they shoot like crap is no fun.

21 March 2002, 16:16

<OTTO>

Bullets, YES. Powder, NO. I always buy my powder from a local vendor. Now if the powder companies packaged them in smaller amounts, YES. But only if I could get them from my local dealer.

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From my cold, dead hands!
Thanks Chuck!

22 March 2002, 11:09

<gj>

quote:
Originally posted by ricciardelli:
Not only "no", but "hell no"...

Liiving in St.Marie MT., AKA Glascow AFB, must be real boring and make a guy real cranky in his old age. LOL gj.

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www.moaammo.com

22 March 2002, 11:48

ricciardelli

Not really grumpy, and the spelling is Glasgow...

I can buy H-4350 for $12.75 per pound and I can get the Nosler bullets for $15 per hundred...

Figuring 10-cents per round for powder, and 15-cents per round for bullet, that brings it to $2.50 for 10 loaded cartridges. And you are asking $16.00?

For that very same $16 I can load 64 cartridges...and at least have something to play with...

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http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

22 March 2002, 13:39

<gj>

quote:
Originally posted by ricciardelli:
Not really grumpy, and the spelling is Glasgow...
I can buy H-4350 for $12.75 per pound and I can get the Nosler bullets for $15 per hundred...
Figuring 10-cents per round for powder, and 15-cents per round for bullet, that brings it to $2.50 for 10 loaded cartridges. And you are asking $16.00?
For that very same $16 I can load 64 cartridges...and at least have something to play with...

Sorry about the spelling that appens win I typ to qik.

Is that for 4-8lb kegs, 1-8lbkeg, or is that buying a 1 lb can only?

Can you do the same with all other powders purchaseing only 1 lb at a time?

Is that buy on 1-100rnd box of bullets, or a thousand or more at a time?

Tell us just how many lbs of powder and how many boxes of bullet you had to buy at one time to get the prices quoted.
( now be Honest!)

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www.moaammo.com

22 March 2002, 14:08

<dr280>

GJ,
My apologies for "understanding" the post- it was rather stupid of me. As for buying in smaller quantities- it would be a good idea. As for getting in a pissing match with a grumpy old man- check out rics web site first. I have sent numerous e-mailed questions and he has responded promptly to them. I am not singing his praises- just saying I appreciate the "experienced" knowledge he has, and his willingness to share it with others in our sport. (If he is lying about all his shooting- than he should run for the President's Office- cause he could fool anyone). Great question to post.

22 March 2002, 14:38

<green 788>

I found Steve's pages entertaining and interesting, if to a lesser degree informative. I share most of his sentiment on the various cartridges he profiles, but comments such as (paraphrasing) "the 270 Winchester must have been called that because it shoots at best 2.70 inch groups" reveals his lack of adequate load development for that cartridge. (My 270 shoots 1/2 MOA fairly consistently). Also, the notion that the .223 Remington cartridge isn't an adequate man stopper has been dispelled long ago. I do agree with Steve's preference of the M14 over the M16, however.

Still, if you take Steve's pages for what they are (his opinions, based on what may or may not be adequate experience with what he is opining on), they are entertaining, and even marginally endearing to read. I think I'd like the guy if I were to meet him.

Back on the thread. I would very much like to try sample quantities of bullets and powders. Nosler offers a ball cap and some "free" (about five) bullets for 5.95 or something like that.

I think what might work even better would be an exchange thread here where we offered for trade our stray bullets (not powders!!), and perhaps primers. We could post our surplus bullets on the thread, and make trades with other members through the mail. The worst that could happen is that someone could bilk you out of some bullets you weren't going to use anyway. Just a thought...

green 788

22 March 2002, 15:48

DannoBoone

gj - Ya might need to expand your marketing
survey to other forums than this one. And
reloaders by nature are an independent lot,
so ya might try those who do more huntin'
than shootin'. They be the ones who would
be more prone to this idea, I think.

Haven't been able to get it on a rifle yet
(still up in the air which barrel to put it
on and am contemplating a recrowning job on
one of them) but the Trashco has a clearer
lens than my Weaver and focuses a lot better
than a more expensive Simmons - don't believe
I'll be sending it back to ya!
-----------

Steve! Lighten up! Quit readin' that darned
MatchKing string. It DOES make ya grumpy!
(Me, too.)

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green - OK, I'll put my bullets where my
mouth is. What will ya trade me for six or
seven dozen 240gr .45 Hornady XTP's?

22 March 2002, 16:05

<gj>

dr280:

Not trying the pissing thing. But the whole picture has to be shown.

As far as visiting his site, I have been there several times and E-mailed a couple of times about a year ago.

Also, I even invited him to hunt P-dogs during our annual Memorial week hunt.

I used to live on the Glasgow AFB, now St. Marie.

I am respectful until disrespected.

gj.

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www.moaammo.com

[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-22-2002).]

22 March 2002, 16:15

<gj>

DannoBoone:

Glad to see ya. Nice scope for 116.00 delivered!think your impressed now wait till ya shoot it!

Have posted same on about 5 other forums but I get the same negativity everywhere but at xtremeaccuracy .com.

Dosnt seem to be enough positive interest to think about it any further.
Good Luck gj.

PS. not sure if the guys here now what LOL means.

www.moaammo.com

[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-22-2002).]

22 March 2002, 16:59

ricciardelli

If you are gonna quote me, please do not stop with "...the 270 Winchester must have been called that because it shoots at best 2.70 inch groups..." reveals his lack of adequate load development for that cartridge.

Why not add the next sentence?

"I loaded from 46.2 to 53.5 grains in 0.4 grain increments. And...yup...at the lightest loads it shot groups of around 2-1/2 inches! But, when I got up to 52 grains and heavier, the groups dropped in size. The best was just under 1 inch with 53.1 grains of powder."

As for the invite to do some hunting last Memorial Day, I receive many requests, and have made it a habit to turn them all down. Sorry. There is no possible way for me to make all the trips, let alone all the fees involved. This past 6 months I have been invited to CA, TX, OR, WA, AK, ID, MT, FL, KY, WV, MI, PA, OK, NV and AZ.

As for prices I pay for components. The prices I quoted are for 100 bullets and 8-pound caddy of powder (I can get abetter prices on case quantities). Let's face it, 8-pounds of powder is quite a bit, but it isn't limited to only one caliber, especially something like 4350. (I just bought 32 pounds of Power Pistol. Why? Because the price was right and I want to do some more extensive work-ups with that powder in several different calibers.)

Considering that my first work-up for a rifle uses at least 125 rounds just in powder weight variations of one powder, 10 rounds would be no help whatsoever.

Oh, and there is never any disrespect intended in any of my posts...

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http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

[This message has been edited by ricciardelli (edited 03-22-2002).]

23 March 2002, 00:55

John Y Cannuck

For one, getting powder across the border is a pain.
For two, I already use that powder.
For three, I dont shoot that case.

Thats No, No, and No.

23 March 2002, 01:57

<green 788>

I'll begin a thread for folks who may want to exchange some bullets through the mail. I'll list what I have, and the firearms I load for. We'll see how it goes...

green 788

Steve,

If you'll forgive me for the incomplete quote, I'll forgive you for busting on my beloved .270! Deal? I hope so, as I do mean what I said about you being a likeable guy. I didn't realize, however, that you were present and active on this thread, as I hadn't made the association. I'm sorry that I addressed the forum, rather than you. Won't let it happen again! Take care,

Dan (green 788)

23 March 2002, 09:23

<gj>

ricciardelli

As for your powder how much for shipping 1-8lb keg?

I New you were not comparing apples to apples

As for your bullets:

Noslers in .224 cal. 12.75/100 for one box Maybe it would be a good price.

Was there additional shipping on that or did you buy at a local sporting goods store?
If so how much tax was paid?

As I quoated:

.257 nosler, 1-box only 12.75/100 simply not possible from any wholsale retail provider. not on earth any way.

And Im almost sure you didnt purchase your powder and bullets in ST Marie.

Even from mail order, in addition to there shipping charges, impossible!

Local Sports store, chains stores, even more impossible and usually tax on top of that.

Be honest or get real and stop shading the issue.

I now the market place I deal in it every day. gj.

PS. as for the .270 thing are you directing the statement to me ?

As for the hunt:

Would I ask you again?
No Ive got a good sense of your personality and it wouldnt mix with 99.9% of the hunters.
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www.moaammo.com

[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-23-2002).]

23 March 2002, 09:44

<.>

I don't think you can run reliable data from a lot of ten or twenty of any kind of load.

Any bench shooter or varmint fanantic will tell you it's not about some magic combination of powder and bullet. It's about getting the bullet seated uniformly in the chamber and eliminating variables in the load.

Case trimming; neck turning; seating; weighing brass, bullet, load, etc.

23 March 2002, 09:59

<gj>

quote:
Originally posted by Genghis:
I don't think you can run reliable data from a lot of ten or twenty of any kind of load.
Any bench shooter or varmint fanantic will tell you it's not about some magic combination of powder and bullet. It's about getting the bullet seated uniformly in the chamber and eliminating variables in the load.
Case trimming; neck turning; seating; weighing brass, bullet, load, etc.

Your correct but it would tell you if that powder or bullet merrits more testing.

The facts are if a powder or bullet starts you off with a 1" or more groups at 100yrds when you allready get 1/4 to 1/2 groups out of your gun then its very highly possible you will never obtain tiny groups with that powder or bullet that your trying.

Then on the other hand if it gave say 5/8 or 3/4 groups you might want to go out and buy a lb or a 100 bullets and do more testing.

My belief is 1st and foremost componet selection( powder,bullet,case,primer) is the most important part of an accurate load.

Then 2nd comes Case trimming; neck turning; seating; weighing brass, bullet, load, etc. for fine tunning a load. gj.

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www.moaammo.com

[This message has been edited by gj (edited 03-23-2002).]

23 March 2002, 12:29

ricciardelli

gj...

Since you lived in MT you know there is no slaes tax here.

As for shipping and hazmat fees, when you purchase enough those charges are cancelled. That's right ... my distributor pays shipping and hazmat on powder orders of 100 pounds or more (may be mixed), and bullet prices include shipping, plus there is an additional 5% discount if I order 100 boxes of bullets (may be mixed) and an additional 4% for cash net ten days.

If I order less than 100 pounds, then there is a hazmat fee of $20 which covers up to 70 pounds.

When you have been in business since 1968 you earn a few perks...

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http://stevespages.com/page8.htm

23 March 2002, 12:44

Wildcatter

I want to trade projectiles with all of you! I think that is a brilliant idea. I know I have some 270's left over and mabye some 338's. I would be willing to trade 10-570 grain Barnes X .510's for 20+-combined tech's 230 grain .338.

I don't know why I never thought of this before.Let me know. We should get this started.

-Catter