Smokeless 45/70 loads?

12 July 2003, 10:46

Shooter973

I'm looking for a moderate (1400-1500fps) load for a 350-400gr cast lead bullet.No gas check. Hopefully somthing that doesn't use a lot of powder. Any body have a load with Unique, etc. that they like?

12 July 2003, 11:25

N E 450 No2

Shooter973

From the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook:
405gr. bullet
Starting load 13gr. of Unique 1110fps.
Max load 16.5gr. Unique 1260fps.

with 2400:
Starting load 22.5gr 1240fps.
Max load 28.5gr. 1510fps.

Hope this helps [Big Grin]

12 July 2003, 19:18

Shooter973

Thanks NE 450 That is just the sort of loads I'm looking for. Don't have the Lyman book available. [Smile]

[ 07-12-2003, 10:19: Message edited by: Shooter973 ]

13 July 2003, 01:27

Petander

quote:
Hopefully somthing that doesn't use a lot of powder.

I have had better results the other way round, any caliber with a cast bullet seems to work better (leading and accuracy) with a slow powder.

You will like 2400 much more,I guess.But why not slower one... I am stuck to Vihtavuori powders over here so I canï¿½t give you loads but VV N130 is not far from IMR 4227 and it works great with a 405 grainer in a Marlin.

Compressed loads,too hot to publish here. 1950 fps is accurate,at around 2100 the cases start to stick and accuracy is gone.

Good luck! [Big Grin]

EDITED BECAUSE I HAD WRITTEN A WRONG POWDER! I DO NOT USE N110 IN 45/70... oops. [Cool]

[ 07-15-2003, 07:43: Message edited by: Petander ]

13 July 2003, 02:40

MADISON

I can't say much for it being "smokeless". My load is 20 grains of 2400 behind a 300 grain Hornady HP.

13 July 2003, 03:48

rickt300

My favrite cast bullet powder in the 45-70 is IMR 4227. I use 31 grains of it under both the 405 grain Remington bullet and the 340 grain Lee cast bullet for around 1500 fps. I get excellent accuracy, no leading and points of impact so close I don't have to re sight in to use either load. The 340 grain lee bullet is lubed with Alox and cast from Wheelweights dropped into a bucket of water from the mold and loaded unsized.

15 July 2003, 05:51

Trapdoor

I'm shootin' 17.0 gr. of Unique with a 292 Lyman cast. Shoots great!

I also shoot 3031 with the same bullet and with the Remington 405, but that's not what you asked for!

I have loaded some of the Lee 405 cast at 14, 15, and 16, but haven't had a chance to shoot them yet.

Unique is a great powder for this application!

15 July 2003, 06:44

<eldeguello>

Petander is right, slow powders are better for cast bullet loads in big cases. They provide two things: Slower acceleration with lower peak pressures, hence less deformation of the soft bullet; and more uniform ignition due to occupying more space inside the case.

For plain-base lead .45/70 bullets, if I want to increase the speed someewhat, I use an INVERTED gas-check on top of the powder charge. If using a small charege, I put a ball of dacron on top of the gascheck to keep it down flat after the bullet is seated. But by using a large charge of H4831, one can get slow speeds with a case full of powder! [Big Grin]

[ 07-14-2003, 21:45: Message edited by: eldeguello ]

15 July 2003, 06:53

Clark

Here is my test data for my 45/70 Handi rifle with 405 gr hard cast and Unique:

45/70 work up with; 405 gr cast with lube bands, CCI 200 primers, Win brass, old Unique [dirty] powder, chamber well lubricated between
firings with CLP for max bolt thrust.

Quickload calculation of pressure and velocity with 405 gr, Unique

shot 0) 15 gr, 24,700 psi, 1271 fps, no shot fired, listed for Quickload reference point only
shot 1) 18 gr, 33,217psi, 1403 fps, primer looks fine.
shot 2) 20 gr, 39,435 psi, 1485 fps, primer is fine
shot 3) 22 gr, 46,133 psi, 1563 fps, primer looks flat.
shot 4) 24 gr, 53,334 psi, 1637 fps, primer is flat.
shot 5) 26 gr, 61,067 psi, 1709 fps, primer is top hat and flowing,
action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 6) 28 gr, 69,366 psi, 1778 fps, primer is top hat and flowing, case head expansion .001", action popped open and case ejected on firing
shot 7) 30 gr, 78275 psi, 1846 fsp, case head expansion .0015" action popped open and case ejected on firing, some leading in the muzzle.
shot 8) 32 gr, 87,841 psi, 1911 fps, case head expansion .0025", case head separating where case head is flowing into the extractor, action popped open, some leading in the muzzle, and case ejected on firing, primer is spreading out .010"

There was no change in headspace, but I had to stop the work up because of case head separation where the case head flowed into the extractor.

Reference loads:

1) "Loads for the 45/70" from the H.P.White laboratory via "American
Rifleman" 1950~1968 via "NRA Handloader's Guide" 1969 says:
405 gr Rem S.P., 17.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 25,240 pounds pressure, for 1886 Win

2) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
400 gr cast, 16.5 gr Unique, 1286 fps, 27,000 cup, for 1886 Win

3) "Lyman's 47th" 1992 says:
385 cast gr cast, 17.5 gr Unique, 1411 fps, 38,500 cup, for Ruger #1

Here is a picture of what the primers looked like from right to left.