The case had been neck sized, reloaded not more than twice. So far, we're barrel off, action off, primer removed, case base drilled out. We'd tried to push it out with a cleaning rod from the muzzle and have succeded in pushing the bullet into the case with a spear-tipped jag (which has stayed with it). Next step will be the stuck case remover and utnil we've got the evidence in the hand, it begs the question - why?
Symptoms had been stiffness when chambering the round (resulting in an immediate decision not to try to shoot it) and extreme difficulty locking the bolt and withdrawing it.
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tikka 3 barrels
As you have found, a modern bolt action has a great deal more ability to "swage" an oversized round into the chamber than to pull one back out.
Hate to say it, but probably if you HAD fired the round, the empty case would have extracted fairly easily. HOWEVER, I wouldn't have fired it either and don't blame you for your decision not to.
Hope everything goes back together okay.
[This message has been edited by Stonecreek (edited 01-31-2002).]
The case will contract faster than the metal...and you should be able to get it out very easily...
This happend to me too. The cause was feeding fired neck sized reloads into a ecentric chamber. IE bad workmanship (thank you Medwell & Perrett).
I got it out by squirting a load of WD40 down the barrel then tapping out with a cleaning rod and a four pound hammer.
Good luck and let us know the outcome. Assuming you live!
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Regards
Richard
1 It isn't so cold here in East Anglia that a spell outdoors would cause differential contraction between chamber and case. Only the ingress of rainwater!
2 The case had been reloaded previously, neck sized and trimmed to oal.
3 The primer came out using needle nosed pliers. I didn't see the workmanship leading up to it but this was with the action off, a spear-tipped jag stuck in the case mouth, or wedged twixt bullet and case wall, the bullet having already been tapped into the case. We'd drilled a pilot hole in the side of the case just above the rim and I suspect a sharp, pointy thing was used as a lever against the side of the primer to ease it backwards.
4 The Remains of the case are stuck where they are for a fortnight now whilst the riflesmith is away on business - drat for me!
5 The only chance I had to decide to pull the trigger was before I started to push the cleaning rod in from the muzzle.
6 I've now measured all my loaded and recently shot .22/250 cases and none are out of spec for diameter at the shoulder or above the rim. Some are right on the spec, but none are out of it.
Does this suggest that all cases should be full length sized occasionally?
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tikka 3 barrels
Get your sick puppy to the Vet (gunsmith). The more you hammer on things down the bore the more likely you are to dammage chamber, throte, or barrel rifeling.
Been there, done that.. got a 243 case mixed in with 22-250. Now I remove my firing pin to check cases so I can really feel how tight they are chambering. OR, I use a L.E. Wilson case gauge on loaded rounds. Cheap $10 for the hassel your going through.
Shoot safe,
Mike
Unless you have a spare eyeball, this is the cheapest way of staying safe and, protecting your rifle....
Paladin
Good luck and good shooting
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BigBob
"If you are attempting to neck size with a full length sizeing die, this could be the cause of your problem. Unless a full length sizeing is screwed up high enough so that the die does not touch the case body at all, what your actually doing is called partial resizeing. If the die touches the case body it will reduce case size at that point only. Below that point, the case will actually enlarge."
That is how I've been reloading this calibre which is why I wonder if he's right.
I worry because it seems to be a widely-used method, often recommended here.
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tikka 3 barrels
Still can't quite picture how you managed to get the primer out...I guess it was while the barrel was off??
Is the base of the cartridge still complete?
Is the powder still in the case?
Ok, this is what I would be tempted to do...
Firstly I'm assuming you have a powder filled unprimed case stuck in the chamber.. I would inject some water into the case so prevent any acciendents. I would then drill the primer pocket at a low speed with a hand drill again playing some water on the case...
Once the hole was complete I would try to thread the case to accept some sort of "pull hammer" or any other similar means you can devise....If the case head is off, or even via the drilled out primer hole, I would be tempted to introduce a brass rod from that end and try knocking the bullet back into the bore a little way...This may give some room for the case to "relax" as you try to pull it out...Qualified gunsmith reading this are probably rolling there eyes at these suggestions and at the end of the day, it is probably best for you to take it to such a smith....but that is how I would try to sort things....I have a seperated case extractor for a .308...I very much doubt this would get enough bite to extract a case stuck like yours....
"Still can't quite picture how you managed to get the primer out...I guess it was while the barrel was off??"
Yes, action off and barrel in a proper barrel clamp. Drilled small hole in the side of the case in the indented bit just above the rim. Water squirted into case. Small pointy thing pushed through the hole and gentle pressure applied to the front edge of the primer easing it just far enough backwards and out to enable pliers to be applied to the primer body.
"Is the base of the cartridge still complete?
Is the powder still in the case?"
The rim is intact. The primer pocket first and then the remaining base was drilled out. The powder is now out. There may be a little bit still in.
"Ok, this is what I would be tempted to do..."
The highly qualified gunsmith who's helping me is trying to get the case out intact, partly I guess out of professional pride, partly out of a desire to have enough of it intact so as to see what caused the problem in the first place, and partly to keep himself from applying "blacksmith" engineering" techniques - at least while I'm in the shop! I'd be trying to wreck the case in situ, causing it to collapse in on itself and then drag it out with the mole grips!
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tikka 3 barrels
Verdict seems to be a combination of neck sizing with f/l dies and an amount of dirt between the case and the chamber wall. There were no signs of case failure, just lots of friction.
Now with a newly polished chamber, I think I may just pull all of my "neck sized" rounds and reload into f/l sized brass.
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tikka 3 barrels
How did you get the case out in the end?
Pete
a big thanks to Riflecraft of England for getting me out of this hole!
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tikka 3 barrels
Here's a thing. The case is completely uneven in thickness around the circumference just above the base.
I've just cycled all my loaded varmint rounds and selected 15 ex 50 to pull and resize on the basis of bolt pressure. I know these to be one batch and I'm fairly satisfied that my neck sizing technique was to blame so either I get a Lee collet die for the future or a Redding body bump die to knock all my shoulders back, or I persist with the Lee f/l die, using it at full length, or I try the recently acquired RCBS competition die.
Now to check my target rounds....
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tikka 3 barrels
Sure glad you managed to get it out...what sort of action was it? I'm just wondering if the extra extraction force of a Mauser style action would have solved this???
As to the N/S ~V~ FL/S, I think for a hunting bullet I would stick with FL sized cases for the extra reliability. I have noticed that somepeople (myself included) who necksize only sometimes have problems chambring a round...I changed to FL/S after such a failure to chamre cost me a shooting test on my NSCC a few years back.
Pete
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Andr�
I've just run 50 varmint rounds and 50 target rounds through and have pulled 15 of the V-Max and 5 of the target rounds. None of these will have ben through more than 4 times and all are either my own ex-factory rounds or bought-in once fired and f/l sized by me. I'm confident that the problem lies with the partial resizing.
As soon as the weather holds I can re-zero the rifle and get back onto the foxes with it
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tikka 3 barrels