Little Known (Top Secret) Accuracy Tricks

02 October 2003, 03:05

Hot Core

OK, it is time to "Teach an Old Dog a few New Tricks".

I see a good many general discussions on how to go about developing a Load. They often lead into - how to get an "accurate Load" with a specific cartridge.

As I feel sure the experienced Reloaders know, each cartridge/firearm will respond to some Cases, Primers, Powders, Bullets and Seating Depths better than they will other combinations. So, posting a "Specific Load" for a 308Win might work for someone else real well, but he may also miss the "Best Load" by a few grains of Powder or a few thousandths in Seating if he just duplicates what he has been told.

But, that isn't what I'm interested in. I'd like to hear about the SUPER DUPER, TOP SECRET - TRICKS you all use to build Total Confidence that you've done everything in your power to achieve the ULTIMATE ACCURACY. Maybe it only cuts 0.0000000002" off the group out at 2000yds where the MatchKing Shooters Brag about shooting at Targets/Game/Whatever.

Fine, tell me about how to cut that - 0.0000000002" off the group.

...

Here is one for you all:

Wrap a Bore Brush with 0000 Steel Wool and "Polish" the Casemouth with it after Chamfering. Simply give the Brush a couple of twists(no power tools needed or desired) to remove tiny burrs which can scratch the leading edge of the Bullet Base as it enters the Casemouth. Once you have a good bit of Trigger Time, you can see the differences from doing this as close as 400yds.

Over-polishing(with the Brush stuck in a Drill) has the potential to change your Neck Tension by altering the Friction of the Neck Tension.

So, what's your TRICKS?????

[ 10-01-2003, 18:07: Message edited by: Hot Core ]

02 October 2003, 03:42

1894

My failsafe method for improving groups is to assume that each of my paces is equivalent to 1 yard. This improves groups by 0.1" at 100yards

02 October 2003, 04:34

Pete

1894 said "My failsafe method for improving groups is to assume that each of my paces is equivalent to 1 yard."

Why not try telling folk you stride a metre instead of a yard? I actually do stride a metre and it certainly seems to impress people.

02 October 2003, 05:55

<GoWyo!>

Partial neck sizing once or more fired brass. You have to make sure that a loaded dummy round will chamber though. It really sucks to get to the field and not be able to close the bolt.

If trying new loads, make a good rest, get comfortable and steady. It amazes me to see some nimrod stacking 7 sandbags on top of each other and then having to stand up off the bench to shoot.

Document everything and make moderate changes to loads (.5 to 1 grain) for while working them up. Then, when something shows promise. Go up or down with small powder changes(.1 grain), of course, smaller capacity cases should receive smaller changes. In or out with seating depth.
Some start with touching the lands and work back a little or a lot.

That's enough for now.

02 October 2003, 16:49

Martin@Hin

I do the usual case prep,like flash hole deburring and neck turning but I find bullet runout important meaning .002" max.
Not all dies will do this if not it may help expanding the case after sizing (2 separate steps) if still not, I made a V block and dial gauge set up to check case mouth and bullet runout and the shells that have to much runout I place in a device and gently tap the bullet untill it does.
Also I like to shoot@ 200y,some bullets need more range to go to sleep.
The problem with this however is wind and Mirrage have more effect.

I have been playing with the OCW load development system and I think it will cut down on the amount of test shooting to find what you want.

Regards Martin

02 October 2003, 17:17

redial

Since I'm primarily a service rifle shooter, I use whatever load worked in the last barrel that I can duplicate with the components on hand!

Then I practice! And practice some more! Seems to work. [Wink]

Redial

03 October 2003, 01:07

Cold Bore

quote:
Originally posted by redial:
Then I practice! And practice some more! Seems to work.

There ya go, the best "secret" yet.

Get a "good" load and then practice, practice, practice.

Tony Boyer could give you his pet load, and without a mastery of the fundamentals, you'd never tell the difference from a box of factory loads off of the shelf at Wal-Mart.

03 October 2003, 03:08

Dutch

Each time I put both muffs and plugs on, I shoot the big boomers a good bit better.

As far as accuracy, I've started culling brass that gives me "out lier" velocity readings. Sure helps, even at 200. FWIW, Dutch.

03 October 2003, 03:20

beemanbeme

English Pete, it would impress me as I, like most yanks, am not sure exactly what a metre is. Or even a meter. [Big Grin]

03 October 2003, 04:04

turnerhunter

39"

03 October 2003, 09:58

Brent Moffitt

The ladder test of Creighton Audette's, but Hot Core is quite familiar with it already. [Wink]

Any other links to info on the subject would be nice, have you got any Hot Core?

Here's some info on the subject some of you might like to read.

[URL=http://home.snafu.de/l.moeller/Laddertest.htm#Laddertest]

It might be a PDF file but I can't remember, I saved it to a WORD document long time ago, but here's the link that was on it.

Here's the other one if that doesn't work, looks like more info has been added to it as well.

http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:1jhQdslLsKoJ:www.sportschutters.com/Laddertest.pdf+Creighton+Audette+ladder+test&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

[ 10-03-2003, 01:12: Message edited by: Brent Moffitt ]

03 October 2003, 12:04

Old & Slow

Take $5,000 and go to the upcoming Benchrest nationals in Phoenix which start this weekend. Buy a new BENCHREST rifle, scope, brass, dies, press, true match bullets, neck turner, Vit-133, case comparator; front rest, rear bag, cleaning equipment, etc. Then pay one the top 20 shooters thats retired $1,500 to hang around afterwards for a week or so and teach you the ropes. In ten days you will be shooting in the low teens @ 100 yards. One little hole. Easy as pie.

[ 10-03-2003, 03:06: Message edited by: Old & Slow ]

03 October 2003, 13:55

Hot Core

quote:
Originally posted by Brent Moffitt:
The ladder test of Creighton Audette's, ...
Any other links to info on the subject would be nice, have you got any Hot Core?...

Hey Brent, No I don't.

Went to Knob Creek which is a Range Southwest of Louisville toward Fort Knox today. Absolutely amazing to see so many "non-Deer Hunters" out shooting for the fun of it.

Even had a guy a couple of benches down shooting a very expensive 50BMG Bolt Action of some sort.

Had a young guy walk up and asked if I could "give him some tips" on getting his new 300WinMag shooting a bit better. One of the items we discussed was using Mr. Audette's Method. You could see in his eyes that he understood.

...

I want to give a BIG "Thank You" to you all who have contributed to the thread so far(the funny ones too).

I sure expected the MatchKing guys to have ALL KINDS of neat tricks to help me out. Surely they have to have some nifty Secrets to be able to shoot a Quarter at 2500yds?!?!?!?!

Is a Quarter too BIG for them, too close or what?

OK, make it a Nickel at 2750yds if that will get their interest!

03 October 2003, 16:45

264winmag

Good point on the steel wool in the case neck.Ive been doing that for a few years now except I use a drop of Butch's on it to clean up the powder residue.Then blow the brass out with air to remove any leftover solvent.You can tell the diffrence when seating,just like new brass.Just curious,have any of you used that new device advertised in?..well it straightens out bad bullet runout so to speak.It couldnt change case neck runout but aliegn bullet parallel to the bore.Would it change neck tention if you had .004 runout?

05 October 2003, 17:12

Wstrnhuntr

This is shooting related rather than reloading ,but what I do is sometimes if I want finer aiming than my crosshairs/magnification allows, I will look back and forth, up and down with the scope to find miniscule reference points with which to line up that will give me a more consistant zero aim point.

06 October 2003, 03:57

<Savage 99>

My latest "idea" when shooting sporters from the bench is to just fire two shot groups. I also bring at least four rifles and most of the time five to the range. This means getting up of course and switching back and forth but I am always firing from a cold barrel.

The thinking is that when hunting it's almost always over at the first shot. This is the one that counts so a great effort is made to make sure the rifle fires that shot to the correct point of impact from a clean cold barrel. This, to me, is far more important than a "group" not that small groups are not very desirable.

I check the impact of each and every shot and also record the impact, group and velocity on a work sheet with the load and conditions.

Of course I don't do this with every rifle all of the time. I might shoot off the remaining ammo and usually fire a shot or more offhand rapid fire.

06 October 2003, 04:15

DigitalDan

My one big winner is concentricity. Neck and bullet. I find little else that has as much influence.

06 October 2003, 10:17

sonofagun

quote:
Originally posted by turnerhunter:
39"

39.37"

06 October 2003, 10:47

sonofagun

Oh, and here's the absolutest SUPER TOP SECRET TRICK:

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Shhh, it's a secret. [Cool]

06 October 2003, 11:04

ktg

DigitalDan, I'm beginning to believe as you. Especially neck concentricity and tension.

07 October 2003, 13:33

Old & Slow

My post on getting a benchrest rifle was only partly in jest. These shooters have done more to enhance accuracy over the last twenty five years than can be imagined. In a hunting rifle concentricity is as important as it is in a benchrest rifle. Blueprinting an action truely helps. Rethreading and rechambering a factory barrel by a GOOD gunsmith will definity help. But; not as much as a high end aftermarket barrel. SAAMI minimum chamber reamer. The most consistant brass you can find is an item most overlooked. Case neck turning for consistant bullet pull. I am left handed. I took a Savage 110 that I had for years and was attached to and had it blueprinted and glass bedded and put a Shilen barrel on it. Done by a benchrest gunsmith. 30-06 Lapua brass; neckturned. It is amazingly accurate and the barrel cleans super easy.

07 October 2003, 16:20

nelsonted

The most obvious one that everyone has missed. Buy an air rifle, a pellet trap and shoot it every day while you watch tv. One doesn't need a lot of distance. I shoot it at 15 feet, just use a small target. I shoot at a 1/8 inch dot on a cardboard box filled with phone books. Be careful since it doesn't take long to bore right through and shoot a hole in the wall behind it, been ther done that. Standing shots can become remarkably easy, quickly.

07 October 2003, 19:47

RuffHewn

HotCore,
First you need to ensure your rifle is capable of the group size you desire, though you were not specific as to your goals. This entails paying for the services of an accomplished rifle builder and all the parts he deems necessary. I doubt little more than your action will be usable, and it will require the riflesmith's labor.

Now you must evaluate yourself. Are you capable? You need to get in at least fair physical condition so that your heart rate is steady and slow even while you control your breathing and any unexpected stress will not greatly raise your blood pressure and heart rate. Everything you put into your body affects what you can expect out of it so no nicotine, no caffiene, limited sugar and fatty food intake.

When you have all the above accomplished then you should observe a benchrest or F-class match or two, then compete in a few, and someone will most likely volunteer some advice and possibly even assistance as most competitive shooters are a helpful and friendly.

After that practice but remember only perfect practice leads to perfection. I have a very thin area in the beard on my right cheek from the cheek rest and a callous on the top of my trigger finger from rubbing the stock above the trigger till my finger is in to the second joint every time.

12 October 2003, 19:37

Ray-Marine

This may sound crazy but I aim small and miss small. What this means is I aim at the smallest point that I can on a target. If it is an aminal I will try to hit a single hair before it goes in to the spot I want to hit. When punching paper I will put a small spot on the paper with a bright pin before I shoot. This is one of my "old tricks"

Ray

13 October 2003, 02:40

<mike elmer>

To reduce bullet/ neck runout, I start the bullet, then rotate the case bout 1/3 turn, seat the bullet a little farther, rotate again, then finish seating the bullet, rotate again and give it one more press into the die to finish it off. It takes very little extra time, and seems to work with any brand of seating dies and bullets.

I have also starting recording overall length with a (+) or a (-). Some bullets in a box are a few hundreds of an inch longer than others. So I seat a few hundredths short of my target OAL, and then measure each cartridge. If I want to seat at say 3.14"(-), I take the cartridge with the longest OAL, and set the seating die to seat that one at 3.14" and those that are shorter will be the (-). Conversely, if I want to seat at 3.14"(+), then I take the cartridge with the shortest OAL, and set the die to seat it at 3.14", and the remaining bullets will fall into the (+) range. It has shown to make a difference on the target, and enhances repeatablity.

26 October 2003, 20:13

RuffHewn

Now that you have had time to ponder the advice I gave in my earlier post, I will share with you the 4 secrets of loading accurate ammo.

(#1)good bullets (#2)started straight down a (#3)good barrel at a (#4)consistent velocity will provide accuracy.

Maybe you should try Match Kings, #1 above.

27 October 2003, 17:59

vmaxx

My secret is moly coated bullets seated to have full contact with the lands. .243 caliber using varget powder.

28 October 2003, 02:18

Hot Core

Hey RuffHewn, What do you do to ensure the "Seated Straight" portion?

30 October 2003, 19:16

RuffHewn

HotCore,

Seating the bullet straight in a straight case is dependent on your reloading equipment. If the equipment is sold by Sinclair it is most probably not junk.

I have heard before that if you rotate the case 180 deg and resize and rotate it several times as you seat the bullet might help, but I have never experimented with this. One tip that I am sure is helpful is the set the bullet as square on the case mouth as possible before running it into the seating die.

Keep in mind that seating the bullet straight does not guarantee it will start straight down the bore. The location of the cartridge in the chamber and the degree of uniformity of thickness around the case neck has an effect, as does the alignment of the chamber with the bore and the concenticity of the start of the lands.

31 October 2003, 01:26

sakofan

I too have used the "turn a little" while seating method. It works, but only with my RCBS dies.

My purchase of Forster BR dies have eliminated the need for turning the case while seating.

I bought a K&M Expandiron, and threw away my expander ball. Though Forster's are not bad.

K&M also produces a chamfer tool that is amazing as well.

I can regularly produce rounds that have at most .002 bullet runout or less, with Win.,Fed,Rem., brass. Some cases will never produce a low runout reading.

Out of 20 cases, I can get 16 or better out of a given lot, to less than .002 and more like .001 run out on most..sakofan..Good subject, with alot of great tips from everyone!! [Smile]

31 October 2003, 02:14

Hot Core

Thanks again to all of you again. I do believe some of the Beginning Reloaders will actually be able to get some excellent advice from the Thread(and a few chuckles).

I notice a good many responses concerning getting the Bullet "aligned well with the Bore". And it looks like a considerable amount of thought and effort is going into this process by those people.

Just wondering if those of you who go through all the Neck Turning and Concentricity Checks have ever tried "Partial-Full Length Resizing(P-FLR)" in comparison to Neck Sizing?

So as not to get people confused by multiple definitions of P-FLR, lets say it means adjusting the Full Length Sizing Die so it reforms a fired case between -0.0001" to -0.0005" Headspace for a Crush Fit(less than Zero Headspace). Basically the Bolt closes with just a bit of resistance so the Case is held in compression between the Bolt-face and Chamber-shoulder. This forces the Case CenterLine to be in extremely close alignment with the Chamber CenterLine.

...

NOTE: Beginning reloaders need to be aware that P-FLRing Cases should NOT to be used with Loads intended for use where Dangerous Game might be encountered.

01 November 2003, 05:56

steve y

Good shooting technique, especially with bags.

You wouldn't believe how many I see holding the foreend, or with hand on top of the barrel, or with swivel studs backed against the bags.

01 November 2003, 14:54

RuffHewn

Hot Core,

Excepting the very best neck sizing dies that ensure the neck will be aligned and centered with the body and perpendicuar to the head of the case partial full length resizing is better. I pflr considerably less than you suggest and miss the shoulder by .001 to .0015. Chambering is easy with just a slight feel and I would use rounds loaded with this method for any game.