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Avoiding leading ??
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I have a Marlin 1894 P with 16 1/4" barrel and am interested in shooting cast bullets from it mainly due to there cheaper price. My question is what speeds do I need to keep to to avoid leading, and of the bulk cast .44 rem mag bullets availble what should I look for in the way of a bullets that will not do this (I will buy cast bullets as I I will not be casting my own.

Also is it true barrels last indefinitely when shooting cast loads ??
 
Posts: 7502 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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To answer the second question first, yes bbls. last almost indefinitely using cast bullets for two reasons. First, the "lead" bullet has a lower coefficient of friction than its jacketed counterpart. Second, the powder charge-velocity is usually lower when using cast bullets. However, it is possible to push some cast bullets almost as fast as jacketed ones, but then throat erosion becomes a problem and bbl. life declines. As to velocity in your 1894 Marlin, assuming a smooth bbl., high quality lube and sufficiently hard plain based (v. gas checked) cast bullets, you should be able to reach ~1,400fps without appreciable leading. With gas checks, velocity can be significantly higher.
 
Posts: 480 | Location: N.Y. | Registered: 09 January 2003Reply With Quote
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PC
It's been my experience that with the 45-70 any load that I can shoot with a jacketed bullet can be shot with a cast bullet. In the 45-70's barrel the bullets are .459 or 460
The trick for me has been to use a gas checked bullet 1 to 2 thousandth larger then the barrel. As long as the bullet has good lubricant and the proper hard alloy I've never had any leading. Actually the only leading I've had in a rifle with cast bullets was some soft .378 bullets in my 375 Whelen.
Jim
 
Posts: 5842 | Location: Richmond, Virginia | Registered: 17 September 2000Reply With Quote
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Another factor ordering those cast PC is size. Marlin bores tend to run oversized and a bullet around 2 thou over groove is a good place to start, assuming safe chambering per loaded neck dia.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Would I have better on game performance from both my marlins in .44 rem mag and 45/70 if I chose to use cast bullets. I really do not know anything about cast bullets and I see certain brands floating around and would like to get some tips on what look for in the way of a good cast bullet that will not give me leading. What questions do I need to ask ??

I really have not got time to cast my own.
 
Posts: 7502 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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Marlins can be finicky. I had one years ago that shot hardcast Keith type GC bullets (255 grains?)from a Lyman mould better than I am willing to post here for fear of being called a liar.

I tried at least three other cast bullets in it and got patterns rather than groups.

I concur with the others. A .44 cal bullet for the Marlin needs to be:

A. Hard
B. Gas Checked
C. Over bore size (at least .430)
D. In the normal weight range (240-255 grains)
 
Posts: 1570 | Location: Base of the Blue Ridge | Registered: 04 November 2002Reply With Quote
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I had a Marlin 1894 44mag 20" years ago and it was very accurate with a 225 lswcgc. I sized to .429, lubed with RCBS lube, and loaded 23gns 2400. When I did my part I could put 3shots into almost an inch at 100yds. No matter how hard I tried I couldn't get them all to go in the same hole. I've learned abit since then. I never had any leading problems. I didn't chrono any of the loads.
lar.
 
Posts: 2924 | Location: Arkansas | Registered: 23 December 2002Reply With Quote
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At the velocities you will be shooting, a hard bullet(over 12 Brinnell) is not required. Things would get ucomfortable on the hind end of the rifle before you pushed it to leading, assuming proper bullet fit, and decent lube. At these velocities, you can probably even get by with a sub-standard lube.

Around 240-250 grain bullets will be optimal. If you are using them for hunting, get a semi-wadcutter type. With a good flat meplate, these bullets at 1200+ fps. will be sure medicine on 'roos, or whatever you are hunting. Hunting is my end game with cast bullets, and these will work for you if you are willing to take the time to learn the game.
 
Posts: 922 | Location: Somers, Montana | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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PC, The results you get from your Marlins with cast bullets depends on how well they fit your bores (size), how fast you drive them (Gas checked ones can be driven faster, but aren't widely available commercially; and they're more expensive to boot.), and how hard they are (Sometimes they can be too hard.). As Waksupi said, something around 12-15 BHN (roughly wheelweights with perhaps 1% tin added) will work. I have two Marlins, a .30-30Win. and a .45-70 Gov't. (microgroove bbls.)which shoot home- cast bullets as well as they do jacketed ones.
 
Posts: 480 | Location: N.Y. | Registered: 09 January 2003Reply With Quote
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When it's all said and done what differences are there in the way the kill on say thin skinned roo sized game and pigs compared to Jacketed bullets ??

and also for my .44 rem mag I will not need gas checks then ??

Paul, both my marlins have the deep cut ballard rifling they had just discontinued the Micro groove rifing about a year prior to my purchase.

I am also thinking that for the 45/70 it might be better to opt for a heavier weight bullet thus speeds would be reduced and then there is less chance of leading. I was thinking maybe a 400-450 gr bullet ??

Thanks for your help so far gents.

[ 02-09-2003, 03:19: Message edited by: PC ]
 
Posts: 7502 | Location: Australia | Registered: 22 May 2002Reply With Quote
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PC, I can't comment about hunting performance, but I do agree that a 400 - 450gr. CB will do well in the .45-70. Believe me, your shoulder will tell you all you want to know about recoil and velocity as you reach and exceed 1,300fps with such CB's. For each increase in bullet weight by 50gr. or velocity by 50fps there is a definite increase in recoil. Btw, I test fired a friend's new Marlin .45-70 (with Ballard rifling)a few months ago using Win. factory 405gr. loads. From a rest and with a 4X 'scope, I put 3 into 3/4" (2 witnesses) @ 100yds.
 
Posts: 6 | Location: Kingston, New York | Registered: 25 December 2002Reply With Quote
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leading question,i started getting some leading shooting 480r @ 1500-1600fps w/ballisticast 305pb sized .476,will going to water quenched (dropped) ww/usually correct this problem,i want to keep the velocity.
 
Posts: 562 | Location: Houston Tx | Registered: 23 October 2002Reply With Quote
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I believe I would actually try a softer bullet, and check the bore diameter to see if your slugs are large enough diameter.
 
Posts: 922 | Location: Somers, Montana | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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the bullets are 14 bhn w/bbt lube.the groups are 1" and less at 25 yards (leupold 2x scope)i get good accuracy from 1200-1600fps w/this bullet?just that lead started showing at 1500-1600fps,should i still check bore dia,
checked bore .476.5-.477? rcbs calipers,what do you think. thanks ,sean h

[ 02-10-2003, 02:49: Message edited by: 475/480 ]
 
Posts: 562 | Location: Houston Tx | Registered: 23 October 2002Reply With Quote
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Then you need a .478 - .479 bullet
 
Posts: 922 | Location: Somers, Montana | Registered: 23 May 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by 475/480:
the bullets are 14 bhn w/bbt lube.the groups are 1" and less at 25 yards (leupold 2x scope)i get good accuracy from 1200-1600fps w/this bullet?just that lead started showing at 1500-1600fps,should i still check bore dia,
checked bore .476.5-.477? rcbs calipers,what do you think. thanks ,sean h

If your not leading till 15-1600's that's pretty good with a PB bullet. At those speeds and chamber pressures the lube is getting a workout. You must have a decent throat to bullet fit now?
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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