I have been trying to develop a load for my 416 rem. I have loaded a great deal of different loads and some would have two holes touching and then two inches away. some with 3 shots at an inch and then one inches off.

Without consistent grouping my confidence low. what if this shot is the one that is off?

Any ideas? Do you tend to find that shooting cast bullets at the low end of the load data better? Or vise versa?

Should I be using a filler? I have been using loads between 39 and 43 grains of aa 5744. Should I try magnum primers, so far I have been using large rifle primers.

Thanks

Are you segregating bullets by weight? I have found that as much as half a grain of difference will open up a group.

welcome to cast bullets!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have the same thing happen to me with my super accurate Satterlee arms 416 Ruger...can t expain it, thou bullet uniformity and consistency is a big thing in cast bullets
Now JUST TO CONTRACICT MY SELF !!!I find it hard to belive that one or two grains difference in bullet weight would make such a big difference in point of impact in a BIG BORE

what weight bullets are you using and what velocity are you getting
what diam are your 416 cast bullets

Daniel

slim, what is the diameter of your bore? What is the diameter of your sized bullets? I have a 405 winchester in ruger #1, bore maesures .4145 and I size my bullets .4155. What is your alloy?

I think I might be on to something.

375gr bullets..417 dia

I went with starting focusing on the low end of load data. I also increased the COAL

SB

is that group @50 or 100 yards

there is nothing wrong with that group you posted
with cast bullets you get best results when the proj is HARD against the lands...that is pretty much standard loading practice with cast bullets in rifles

75 yrds

My dilemma now is I have shot almost all my cast bullets. It took Beartooth 5 months to deliver these. I need to become more efficient in my load development.

Oh well, now I get the chance to work up a load with jacketed bullets.

SB
try R17 in both your 375 and 416 Ruger

my load is 82 gns of R17 behind a 400 gn Woodleigh soft MV is 2400 from a 22 inch barrel

Bullet lube and the amount of said can have a big impact on scattering.
Lee's mulesnot is just that snot! Good for pistol bullets and pistol speeds but it lacks in so many ways in faster rifle loads.

Had a mate loading for his 416 Rigby and he also had flyers. Told him to change lube and try only lubing the bottom groove. He went on to stack them into the same hole at 110yds.

quote:

Originally posted by Doubless:
Are you segregating bullets by weight? I have found that as much as half a grain of difference will open up a group.

Thanks for all the ideas.

Here is an honest 4 shot group at 102yrds according to my range finder. notice the bottom hole is "egged" a bit. My last cast bullets so I tried real hard.

SB
the hole could be egged because your paper may have been taped on a bit loosely...i dont think its a barrel twist issue

Craigster, I fully agree with your response. 1/2 grain bullet weight make a difference in a heavy bullet?? That is a minute amount of change. How would you know that was the culprit? Some like to make bullet casting rocket science and it aint.

Getting cast bullets to shoot right can be a bit of a black art if you're used to dealing with jacketed. Sometimes insignificantly small things can yield results completely out of proportion to what you might expect. A case in point:

I reciently acquired a Savage 23C in .32-20 WCF. While trying to sight it in at 50 yards, I couldn't put a single hole in a standard small bore target. I moved up to 25 yards... still couldn't get a hit. At 15 yards I started to get a group- about 12" . This was with a Lyman 309008 bullet (116 grain as cast) sized to .309", and 5 grains of Unique (for about 1100 FPS.). I gave up and tried it again the next week, this time with 12 grains of 296 and 12 grains of 4227. Much better- 8" to 12" groups at 50 yards. At least I was beginning to get somewhere. I was really starting to have doubts- was it the rifle, which I knew very little about, or the fresh-from-Ebay El Paso Weaver K2.5 scope? I did know one thing about this particular rifle- the barrel slugged .306" across the lands, and .309 across the grooves. A strange, shallow rifled (.0015"), undersized barrel for sure! Had my doubts that it would ever shoot cast bullets successfully.

Next I tried some 120 grain "Soup Can" bullets from a Lee mould I had. Same powder charge- 12.0 of 296, same lube (Lee liquid Alox cut 3:1 with gasoline), gas checked and sized to .309", same as before. Shot about a dozen .310" to .380" ragged one hole groups at 50 yards. The only change being made was a 5 grain heavier bullet of a little bit different profile.

The smaller calibers can be real touchy about a lot of things- much more so than the larger bores, but the same principals still apply. First- bore fit is EVERYTHING! I've had a lot of experience with commercial cast bullets being a few thousanths smaller than they were supposed to be. Slug your bore and go with a bullet *verified* to be at least .001" bigger, preferably a "bore-rider" design. If the bullet's undersized, it's a waste of lead.

Secondly, make sure the bullet weight chosen is appropriate for the rifling twist. I shoot a lot of .25-20, and with anything heavier than 80-85 grains, the standard rate of 1 in 14 or 1 in 16 has a tough time stabilizing it.

Thirdly, random fliers are a good indication of overlubing. In my .25-20, using the 85 grain RCBS "Cowboy" bullet, bullets lubed with Javalina in a luber-sizer throw fliers. The same bullet tumble lubed with straight Lee liquid alox is overlubed and throws fliers. The same bullet with the same lube, only thinned 3:1 with gas does not throw fliers. At all. only nice, tight groups. All this applies to the larger bores as well- just to a lesser degree. The small bores are really sensitive to over lubing.

By the way- the thinned Lee lube dries to a thin, dry, varnish-like coating that's clean to handle. It also takes the higher velocities well. I shoot .30/06, .30/40, and .30/30 at velocities up to 2200 FPS with no leading issues.

Porosonik.

Since the OP said that is a "4 shot group" I would think the bottom hole is egged because it is two holes.
Nice group by the way. That should be good to go and shoot something with!