I knew if I lurked around you guys long enough I'd be wanting to buy another gun, now that you've corrupted me I need your advice. I really, want an economical cast bullet shoot'n large bore rifle for punching paper mostly, but might even take it hunt'n occasionally. Lots of issues to consider, your thoughts please?

Ebert

How big do you want to go??? Thanks to Bruce B, I have shot a few cast bullets through my 416 Rigby, but I'd probably go with a 45-70 if I wanted a strictly cast bullet big bore rifle. I'd look for a bolt action rather than a lever gun (personal preference). I would also consider a 458 win mag but it would be more expensive to shoot than the 45-70.

For mostly paper, tin cans, etc., 358 something would be better than a 458 something. Thinking about recoil here. Probably the 35-06, i.e., Whelen would be my first pick with hunting in mind also. Personally, I like the 35 remington. In between would naturally be the 358W. ... felix

That's right, blame me!

Today, with the sun shining like it is, I AM going to the range with the .416 and .404, plus the 6.5mm Mannlicher-Schoenauer to offer a change of pace.

For a fun cast-bullet rifle, I'd have to go along with the .45-70. There are oceans of useable bullet designs, load data is common, and Heaven knows, it's effective on animals.

I've been looking at a Gibbs Summit carbine downtown, which is a #4 Enfield converted to .45-70 with a three-round magazine. It looks rather neat to my eye, but then, I'm already a fan of the #4. I would get rid of the new barrel-mounted open sight and re-install the flip-up #4 issue sight which is far superior. Total cost maybe $20 for the sight. If scope use is desired, the #4 can easily handle that as well, and no bending of bolt handles is needed.

Take a peek on Gunsamerica.com to see what the going rates are. Search on "Gibbs", "Summit", and also try "45-70" for a wider variety of rifles.

For a bit over $300 for the Gibbs rifle, I am actually tempted myownself. Alternatively, I'd think that a used .45-70 Marlin might be available in the same general price bracket. Most non-handloaders NEVER shoot their highpower rifles enough to even break them in very well, and I wouldn't hesitate to buy a used one.

Regards from BruceB (aka Bren Mk1)

B. Ebert, you've got this all wrong, friend! You've not been corrupted, rather PURIFIED! We'll have you broke of those heathen bullets very soon if you'll just stick around. I tend to agree with Felix about throttle down a bit for recoil sake. Even a 35 Whelen with cast boolits (true purity) is tolerable shooting all day. Same load would take a moose or elk with a well placed shoot - no problem. Grandson took a whitetail two years ago with a fairly light loaded 30-30 and one of my cast boolits. PURITY friend, PURITY. You'll soon be washed of heathen ways with this group. sundog

Hey Sundog,
That's a big ahem! er I mean AMEN brotha! I do have a solution to the problems of the guy who started this thread tho. Maybe get a big .45-70 for those long range moments, a .30-30ish type for regular shootin & a .444 maybe for all kinds of fun. That way he won't run out of mold designs to try & get bored. A .38-55 or the like might be fun to play with too. Learning to live a gilding-metal free life after all is what counts!

B. Ebert....lots of good suggestions here.

It depends on what you want. I'm partial to the .375s and like either a 375 H & H or a 38/55. With the right twist and barrel, either will make a good large bore cast blaster.

If bigger is better, go with the 45/70. The 458 Win Mag's too much normally although I been "rastlin" with one now for a couple of weeks attempting to get it to shoot PB cast. The 444 is also a good cast caliber with the right twist.

When all's said and done, I'd make a 38/55 NUmber 1 Ruger with a 1-16 twist Douglas .375" barrel and pleasantly drive tacks all day long. 375 Winchester ammo could be used for hunting as it's strong as a bank vault and I beleive you'd be happy.

More economical on powder than the big blasters are too./beagle

.......B.Ebert, everyone has made good recomendations so far. I guess 'big bore' would start at 35 cal, eh? Common big bores would then be 35, .375, and 45. Common in that rifles are avail new or used, or fairly simply created. Further, each has a pretty good assortment of mould designs available.

In 35 cal Felix kind of hit the spot as far as I'm concerned mentioning the 35 Rem. Seen mostly on Marlin lever guns. A neat unassuming smaller case that's efficient. The ability to use 35 cal pistol bullets for plinking is a great asset, yet able to launch a 200 gr bullet at 2200+ fps is nothing to be taken lightly. It's a case that will drive a cast bullet about as fast as a FLGC number.

The 35 Whelen is a very fine cartridge found mostly in bolt actions. Pretty flexible as to bullet weight and can generate some good FT/LBS of energy downrange. There is also the 356 and 358 Winchesters, but not so common except in the M94 Big Bore, and Winchester's M88 but that's not very common. I think Win and Ruger chambered bolt actions in the 358?

In .375" it's pretty much a lever action platform in 38-55 or 375 Winchester. Not as wide an assortment of bullet designs. Maybe 225gr to 275gr for use in the lever actions. I'm assuming you aren't interested in the 375 H&H :-)?

For a 45-70 repeater again the lever gun is the common action and Marlins are easy to come by. Plus they'll handle stout enough loads to hurt ya pretty good :-). BruceB mentioned the Gibb's SMLE conversions too. Also used Pedersoli Sharps and Rolling Blocks are out there for single shots. Then you have the H&R, or NEF break open types which are very reasonable and very capable.

One neat feature of the break opens besides their initial price is that for a friendly fee, other barrels can be factory fitted. One final comment about the 45-70 is the extreme span of bullet weights available to it. Commonly from 300gr to about as heavy as you'd like to go, assuming the throat/lead or action length will handle them.

Probably the easiest to find for a spur of the moment purchase would be something in 45-70, IMHO.

........Buckshot

I haven't seen one for sale for a long time, but the 45-70 on the Siamese Mauser action with a Douglas barrel is loads of fun and plenty strong if you really want a bolt action.

I think it was Navy Arms that did a run of these back in the late 70's or 80's maybe. I had mine done by a local gunsmith. It's still not finished, but shoots well!

JMHO,

Now now, there are middle bores and big bores.

Big bores start at .457 and go up. Middle bores start at 8mm and go up to .452 (acp carbine). Didn't your gun writers teach you nothing over all those years of reading those glossy magazines for free at the magazine rack?

A "properly fed" 8mm heavy bullet cast gun can marginally whup a .35 Whelen cast gun for energy and meplat splash wound channel at any range up to the longest you would dare shoot a cast bullet, so the .034" difference in bullet diameter isn't worth all the money to buy the new fancy rifle to get a .35 Whelen.

45-70 is a classic, but long range shooting and drop estimation becomes a century long documented art-form for the caliber.

Everything else bigger/faster than a 45-70 kicks too hard for this old boy to consider.

Oldfeller

Gents,
Middle bores,piddle bores...........A true Big Bore is the 500A2 shooting Cast Boolits,with the 458 Lott coming in a close second and a lil' bitty 416 Rem Mag following timidly behind. Pooh Pooh on those itty-bitty 35 caliber Varmint Rifles. Let the party begin with a fifty sir !
45nut

BIG BORE? I have a 10 ga side by side with screw in chokes.

2.5 ounce slugs says it all.

I am looking for another cylinder bore choke so I can have 2 installed at the same time. When I find one I'll put the flip up set of sights on the rear.

Better yet two chokes that are rifled!

Tim, you do know your collar bone and shoulder blades are supposed to be attached to various other bones with tendons and ligaments?
(or are supposed to be, anyway)

After shooting some of these "wee-little bores" you guys are talking about, you may be configured a wee bit differently.

<g>

Oldfeller

For some real cheap shootin, try a 357Mag or Max,you can shoot pistol bullets real cheap! And wadcutters @ 200yds is a lot of fun!
A full house load will handle white tails and the like all the way down to jack rabbits...thump!

I'm a huge fan of the 35 bore, but have always, and will always consider it a medium bore. To my mind, the 40 calibers are either a heavy medium or light big bore. If you want a true big bore, then get a .458" or larger. I don't know which 458 is the best for the cast shooter, the 45-70, 458 win mag and 458 Lott all have their pro's and con's. I'm personally partial to the Lott, but if you aren't after full patch loads with bullets heavier then 500 grs, a smaller cased round would likely be a better match.

I sold my 458 Lott to fund a 500 Jeffrey, but I've only done limited shooting of it due to lack of a real stock. I was suprised how much Unique I had to burn to get a 470 gr bullet doing a measly 1100 fps, and it even generated some recoil. The 600 gr @ 2200 fps was certainly a full patch, though far from max load, and there was no doubt when I'd lit one off due to the sequence of events that happened after ignition, primarily my 230 pounds moving backwards about 1 foot, and the shooting bags falling off the bench at each shot.

Well, back to your intitial quest, the 458 really is a good economical lead spitter with lots of molds out there, including several economically priced lee models. You also might be able to find a used 458 win mag at a local gunstore. Brass and dies are no problem either.

You guys are made of different stuff than yours truly! I get tired of bending over and picking up .45 ACP brass. I can't imagine bending over after every shot and picking up sandbags and calling it fun. Why not just do push-ups to the sound of firecrackers in the background? Of course the sound would be played loudly from a boom box. It would have to be a BIG boom box as we couldn't have a middling large boom box in this situation. Pilgrim

My Ruger #1 in 45-70 is superbly accurate with cast bullets. There are a few caveats, though--its rifling pitch is kinda slow, around 1-20" or 1-22". It won't do bullets over 400 grains real well. It also has a VERY steep rifling origin in its throat, which might be a problem for paper-patched boolits. No problems with conventional cast slugs, though.

If you plan on using the 500 grain boolits and/or paper patches, you might be better off with the 458 Win Mag. Most examples have a very gentle throat/rifling origin from what I've heard and read, and their twist rate is around 1/14" and designed for 500 grain boolits.

The 9.3 x 62/CZ-550 is a right fine cast boolit rifle, too. Gentle rifling origin, it shot paper-patched boolits quite well, and has relatively deep grooves (.007") about twice the width of the lands in typical Mauser pattern. It does fine work with the Mountain Molds 270 grainer, and I have some donated slugs I need to give test drives one of these days.

Oldfeller -
Actually the 10ga is much more pleasant to shoot than the .375H&H or .458WM max loads. (It weighs much more that the Ruger #1's.)

What is scary is watching someone shoot either of the #1's above from the side. In an instant - no blur - his head moves one foot back. I have to wonder about detached retina's etc.

The 485 is great with 485-500 gr boolets. I've shot as many as 50 in one session. Shoulder still hurt after a full week. (Usually tapers off by Thursday after the Sunday afternoon shoot.)

The .375 WIN is a genuinly pleasant round, bigger than most, effective down range and good for single shot pistols as well.

Did you see the "Shortest hunting trip in my life" post?

http://www.nookhill.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=19;t=000920

What a great old rifle! Also consider
.38-55, .40-65, .45-70, .45-90 !