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45-70 cast bullet expanded

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21 October 2003, 12:00
David Thomas
45-70 cast bullet expanded
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This is a cast 45-70 bullet that weighed 415 grains from a home-made mould. recovered weight is 375 grains. expanded to almost an inch in diameter. A quater was added for comparison.
Bullet was cast with wheel weights and some tin added.
21 October 2003, 12:25
Chargar
What did it hit?
21 October 2003, 13:33
David Thomas
good question.
I have steel NRA silhouettes and paper targets at my range. This bullet was found in in front of the 75 meter turkey Silhouette.
My guess is it was one that was shot at the 25 yard paper target and the ground caused the expansion.

Don't know for sure. Just thought it was neat, and thought I would share it.
21 October 2003, 16:07
Chargar
I thought so...I am glad you didn't tell me you recovered this from a 100 lb. Whitetail. You don't get this kind of expansion from this kind of bullet unless you hit steel, rock or dry sand. Not even my former Mother-in-laws heart could do that to be bullet.
22 October 2003, 14:01
NotRicochet
I've fired the old Remington and Winchester factory swaged lead 240 grain SWCGC .44 Magnum bullets (long ago, alas, they quit making 'em, which is a big reason why I took up casting) from a 7 1/2" Super Blackhawk into water. Got beautiful mushrooms.

Got to do some cast bullet expansion testing one of these days. Too many things I want to do, not enough time. If I didn't have to work, I might get something done.

What's the effect of the added tin in wheelweights? From what little I've read, I thought it was mainly to improve the mould fillout (which hasn't been a problem for me with straight wheelweights.) 2% tin wouldn't affect the hardness much, would it? How about the malleability/ductility? Would it mushroom better or hold together better than plain wheelweights, annealed?
22 October 2003, 15:00
felix
Ricochet, got a Ruger auto? Fire two rapidly at a live animal this season, and see which one does what. The second hole will be the second shot? In theory, the one with added tin will be more mushroomy. ... felix
23 October 2003, 02:33
Leftoverdj
I took a shovel and a shaker screen to my backstop after firing 40 rounds of WW 405 gr HPs into about two sguare feet of backstop. Dug in about 2' and ain't found the first .45-70.

I'm betting your bullet bounced off steel.
23 October 2003, 07:18
David Thomas
NotRicochet,
I add tin to wheelweights for castabillity and appearance.
Tin can turn a dull gray bullet into a sparkling silver. But I do not take it that far, I only mix in a little. I will probably quit adding tin when my current stock of tin is depleted.
Wheelweights only have Approximately .5% of tin and 4% of antimony. I think any increase in the "mushroomy effect" (if I may use a recently coined phrase) comes from the dillution of Antimony in the alloy that was caused by the addition of tin. I actually add tin and lead pre-mixed in a 50/50 solder. Therfore, I dilute the Antimony with both lead and tin.

David
23 October 2003, 08:13
Chargar
A hollow point bullet cast of a binary alloy of 1-20 (tin to lead) will expand when the terminal velocity is 1,100 fps.

I understand that WW+2% tin will do the same thing but have no personal experience to back it up. But I get that information from a man I trust.
23 October 2003, 09:43
David Thomas
the bullet had a meplat of .330. No hollow point.(just clarification)

I would think that if it hit steel it would have splattered as I have seen many 45's and 44's do.
If it did hit steel then I am impressed it held together.

This bullet was not heat treated or hardened in any way. just cast, lubed, and sized. No gas check either.

I have shot 250 grain 45's, cast with same formula loaded, loaded light (800fps), into chunks of pecan wood at 20 yards with good looking (hollow point style) mushrooms. But on steel they splatter like 22's. You can find a flat piece of lead with little weight and no shank at all.
This 45-70 bullet above lost little weight and had some shank left. If it hit steel, I am surprised it looks so good. It was either loaded with 50 grains of re7 or 40 grains of IMR 4198. I shoot both, not sure which batch this came out of.

Remember it was found in front of the turkey, which is 75 meters.

Mystery remains.

David
23 October 2003, 15:54
NotRicochet
I've got some soft X-ray shielding lead, which I originally intended to use for muzzleloading bullets (patched round balls, mainly.) I may try casting some Gould HPs from that stuff, and perhaps half-and-half wheelweights and soft lead. I do have a Microgroove barrel, but at the lower velocities I'm now loading to (under 1500 FPS) it might work fine with soft bullets.