Re: **WARNING** Shooting cotton fillers

23 March 2004, 13:34

i've always used dacron batting for wads in my 30-06, small 1/2" or so squares work ok as long as you dont shake or drop the shells. the most i ever found was small burnt fibers in a few of cases.

23 March 2004, 16:59

aladin

Quote:

I've seen patches and CLEANING RODS left in the bore shot out with out any damage (M14's).

Military quality, not intelligence.

The plural form of the words 'rods' and 'patches' sez something...?

Next you'll say those guys shoot those rods for group?

23 March 2004, 17:24

starmetal

Quote:

Tried some loads with a cotton ball just against the powder recently-- the size weighing 2 grains just to hold the charged minus any pressure. What I found shooten the next loads was there was still pieces of COTTON in the cases. These compressed in one instance to a hard, small lump. One case got loaded again MINUS the filler and I saw specks of fire otta the bore-- a lump of cotton had remained in that case from a previous loading. Pulling the bolt showed a small wad of COTTON sitting in the bore maybe 4" forward of the chamber. It was small and blew right out-- but I wonder about shooten another slug over it???

No more cotton for me. No other fiber case fillers either. You would think these agents would be sucked otta the 06 case during the firing sequence-- but doesn't appear to be the case.

I tried the method per the Schuetzen guys recommendations. Must be ok in their straight walled cases-- I dunno.

I am only reporting and posting what I experienced.

Mistake number 1, using cotton..too dense too heavy. Mistake number 2..2 GRAINS...geez, no wonder why. Mistake number 3 You said you used a cotton ball against the powder, well if you didn't fill the entire empty space from powder to bullet big mistake. Mistake number 4, not checking your cases before loading them no matter how good you think you are at reloading.

All your post does is scare people off from trying the correct fillers such as dacron, kapok, etc.

Joe

23 March 2004, 13:41

trk

I've seen patches and CLEANING RODS left in the bore shot out with out any damage (M14's).

Military quality, not intelligence.

23 March 2004, 19:26

jh45gun

Starmetal, scareing some one off from using Fiber fillers is not all that bad of a idea! Lyman and all of the bullet and powder manufactuers do not reccomend the practice anymore. I know I called them all to get info on the practice. You may get by doing it but my guns are too valuable to me to take a chance on ringing the chambers or barrels on them for a practice that is not considered safe anymore. Kinda reminds me of driving for 20 years and then having a major accident does not matter how long you did it before it only takes once. Jim

23 March 2004, 20:06

nevada duke

Starmetal, This guy is reporting a condition, possibly dangerous, in all good faith. I am glad that he did this because I have considered cotton as a filler also, and I have used all the other ones. So your response is to jump all over the guy as an idiot, therebye elevating your own esteem of yourself I suppose. Do you ever go back and read your own posts, because you should. I would really like to hear your own dissertation on the subject of fillers with cast boolit reloads. Not criticism of other people's posts, but your own ORIGINAL ideas on the use of fillers. I have found them to be very usefull in some cases, not in others. Your whole career here seems to be to put down other contributers. What exactly do you have to offer on these boards?

If it won't go, chrome it. Famous quote from a famous hot-rodder of the 50's who desires anonymity.

Nevada duke, over and out.

24 March 2004, 01:17

starmetal

Quote:

Starmetal, This guy is reporting a condition, possibly dangerous, in all good faith. I am glad that he did this because I have considered cotton as a filler also, and I have used all the other ones. So your response is to jump all over the guy as an idiot, therebye elevating your own esteem of yourself I suppose. Do you ever go back and read your own posts, because you should. I would really like to hear your own dissertation on the subject of fillers with cast boolit reloads. Not criticism of other people's posts, but your own ORIGINAL ideas on the use of fillers. I have found them to be very usefull in some cases, not in others. Your whole career here seems to be to put down other contributers. What exactly do you have to offer on these boards?

If it won't go, chrome it. Famous quote from a famous hot-rodder of the 50's who desires anonymity.

Nevada duke, over and out.

Nevada
First reply my reply to Jim. Next I jump over the genie from Wisconsin because he is an idiot. You don't know the whole gist to the story and how's he's jumped all over everyone, including me, and he's nothing but a keyboard shooter that only owns three guns and just quotes what he reads off the net and very few from experience. This cotton is a very good example of his lack of knowledge..so I don't want to hear any crap about why I jump all over the him.

If you know anything about fillers you would know cottom isn't the right material. The idea of the filler is two fold, to keep the powder back against the primer and to occupy the emply space between the powder and the bullet. If there isn't any/or much of an empty space then you don't need a filler. Fillers of the fiber type should be light. A big tuff of dacron or kapok, that would fill the empty space in say a 30--06 with about 30 grs of such and such powder, would merely weigh under 1 grain. Not at 2 grain chunk of cotton like the genie tried. If he indeed did put a 2 gr wad of cotton overtop the powder and there was an airspace left in front of it, he's damn lucky he didn't ring his chamber. What happens , or can happen, when you do that is that a pressure wave is created and renosants back in forth in that cartridge....basically to put it simple, the fast pressure from the powder drives the wad of fiber against the air in the empty space between it and the bullet, using the bullet as an obstruction, thus possibly ringing the chamber. Much like a barrel obstruction when firing a round, and we know how dissasterous that can be. The fiber filler much me light, and must be spread out to fill that empty space. They had a big lenghty discussion about the proper use of a filler over on the Cast Boolit forum, perhaps you should read it. This ringing of chambers with fillers is has alot incommon with those light bullseye loads in say 38 fullwadcutter loads suppposely blowing the revolver up. The loads like say 2.7 grs of Bullseyes with a 148 gr hollowbase wadcutter. They tried to get it to happen in a labratory and couldn't. The theory about a small charge of powder in a large case area not lighting right and creating tremendous pressure because of that. What they concluded is that it was very possible that the reloader double charge, even triple charged the case, which is very easy to do with Bullseye. This can happen from powder measures bridging and then lettting go on a the next case in reality overloading it. In other words this boils down to human error in reloading. This same human error applys to use of fiber fillers.

Joe

24 March 2004, 03:41

aladin

Wallace cotton is recommended by Charlie Dell-- one of the most knowledgeable Schuetzen guys anywhere. His book is highly regarded and dealt with many topics, including chamber ringing. His tests concluded cotton was the filler of choice-- albeit now I conclude for straight wall cases.

From my experience this must not apply to bottleneck cases.

24 March 2004, 03:43

starmetal

Mr Wallace

I hold you far above a keyboard shooter. I can tell you investigate all possible information and data on new reloading techniques.

That brings up for those of you that don't investigate further. I'm not one to just jump into something I've heard someone mention on some new reloading trick. For example, if you heard about using cotton for a filler,and you didn't go any further then that and loaded some cotton in your cast loads you are in for a bad experience like what happen to aladin. You didn't investigate further, get all the details, the pro's and con's. If you would have done that you would have found out that cotton is not a suitable filler. It's coming to light about the other type of fillers too like cream of wheat. How it turns into a harden mass after setting in the reloaded case awhile. One needs to find out all these things before he attempts them hiself, and the information is out there. That's why I am not in any kind of agreement for someone to post about the bad experience he had with cotton. Had the homework been done before hand, cotton would not have been chosen. It's stuff like that, that makes novice shooters say "Oh, I'll never try a filler, they are bad for your reloading and can damage your gun". Alot of the myths about fillers were started because it wasn't understood what really happen. Mr Wallace brings up a very good case in point about his friends rifle with a ringed chamber, and Mr. Wallace found that the filler was wadded and tamped down over the powder charge, leaving an airspace in front of it. It's no doubt that reload ringed the chamber. It wasn't because of the filler, it was because of the improper use of it. Also as Mr. Wallace stated about his 30-06 loads it's best try find a suitable burning rate powder to fill the case so no filler is needed. Some will say that they use cast loads with fast burning powders because it's cheap shooting. Well that is true, but it's not the only goal of cast shooting. Alot of people out there like making their own bullets and loads and don't look at the cost of assembling it. I like Mr. Wallace shoot alot of 30-06 and have also used a slower burning powder that fills the case and needs no filler, and I know it costs me more then a smaller charge of faster burning powder, but if it shoots to my satisfaction I don't look at the costs. With jacketed bullets you don't have too much of a choice between fast powders and slow powders to achieve the best performance. One is surely not going to use a powder like 2400 with a 150 gr jacketed bullet in a 30-06 for deer hunting when there are much better suitable powders.

Joe