What is the best and most complete book on how to cast bullets? I will be doing this at home. Thanks.

There aren't a lot of books out there about bullet casting. One of the more popular (and available) ones is the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook. It is $15 and has a load data for both handgun and rifles using cast bullets. Another good book is Veral Smith's Jacketed Performance with Cast Bullets. It's only available from him (LBT) and is about $25. The grammar and spelling are downright embarassing, but once you get past that it really has some good information. Another good book is the Art of Bullet Casting, which is a collection of old articles from one of the gun magazines. It is long out of print, but you can find it on the used market. I would also suggest you join the Cast Bullet Association. For an annual fee of $14 you get 6 issues, which have very interesting and informative articles by CBA members. There are also some very good online sources, such as the Cast Boolit board at http://castboolits.gunloads.com. You will find everything here from techniques for bullet casting, load data, bullet mold information, different stock and custom firearms for cast bullets, etc. Quite honestly I would start by joining the Cast Boolit forum, then purchase books later.

You might want to check with the Cast Bullet Association about a two year membership. They were giving a neat book written by one of their members on casting bullets. I have it and it is quite good.
At one time the NRA had a book on bullet casting, but it's long out of print. There was also a supplement, but probably it too is long gone.
RCBS had a cast bullet manual as well. ASgain, it too is out of print, but I've seen copies for sale at reasonable prices at gun shows. usually you can pick one up for about $10-$15. It's a simpler read than the Lyman book, especially on the section for heat treating bullets.
Paul B.

I have found both the RCBS, Lyman and "The Art of Bullet Casting." I will get them and read up on it... Thanks.

Is LBT a member here on AR? If not how do I get ahold of him?

I'm at the house now + I have Veral's address over at the shop.I'll send it to you in the morning if someone else has'nt done so by then.I don't believe he is on the AR forum.BTW,when you order his book,you may want to order some of his lube also.

There is a page on Graybeard Outdoors that hosts a heavily moderated forum to ask Veral questions concerning cast bullets. This page is at http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/phpbb2/viewforum.php?f=114. Veral has not been in his shop for the past 10 weeks or so. An explanation is found at http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/id/public_info/pr06/smith03282006.html. You can call his wife (Judy Smith) at 208-267-3588 and check the status of any items you want to order. An order form and lots of other useful information is found at http://www.graybeardoutdoors.com/lbt/index.htm

CSH, thanks for the tactful update. I'd heard rumors but didn't know for sure.

bulldog563, there aren't any great CB books out there. Veral's is probably more up-to-date than most but none are great. All the CB books suffer from a surplus of old wives tales and a shortage of science. Ditto most of the CB forums.

popenmann,

Ain't that the truth

I've found the Lymann manual is a good starting point, and the more sources one has, the better.

The biggest problem I've seen with cast bullet advice is when blanket statements are made. This occurs when someone finds out something may work or not work in a few cases, and thus a theory starts that it applies to every case. Always keep an open mind and realize that your results may differ, and you need to be able to figure out why.

The best advice I can give to someone starting out is, keep it simple, and cast HOT. In addition your bullet needs to be sized to your gun, and you need to use a good lube, the softer the better. Also the hardcast craze has done more harm then good as bullets often don't need to be nearly as hard as some think.

I've made thousands of perfectly servicable bullets from wheel weights and simply sort them visually, size appropriately and use a good lube.

quote:

Originally posted by Paul H:
The biggest problem I've seen with cast bullet advice is when blanket statements are made. This occurs when someone finds out something may work or not work in a few cases, and thus a theory starts that it applies to every case.

I couldn't agree more.

quote:

The best advice I can give to someone starting out is ......cast HOT [ I prefer to cast lukewarm ] ..... and you need to use a good lube, the softer the better [I've gotten better results with very hard lubes ] ....... Also.... bullets ... don't need to be nearly as hard as some think [I've always gotten better results with hard bullets excepting BP ].

See how confusing cast bullets can be?

View anything you read in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook with grave suspicion. It has not had a substantial update in 40 years. Marshall's NRA book is somewhat better, but it, too, has some very dated material and is a collection of articles rather than a coherent whole.

Chapters 10 and 11 of the Lee Manual are well worth reading if you can ignore the incessant plugs for Lee products.

Thanks guys. Good info here.... Keep it comin.

Include Richard Lee's book with your choices as there is great info on many subjects useful for cast including how to calculate reduced loads for cast boolits.

I found Veral's book to be the most informative as far as how to make cast bullets perform and how to adapt the cast bullet to your particular need.

Variations in heat treating and bullet design can make a world of difference in the performance of the cast bullet.

Good shooting,

HL

quote:

Originally posted by Leftoverdj:
View anything you read in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook with grave suspicion. It has not had a substantial update in 40 years.

I don't see how it can be outdated. The instructions on how to cast bullets is the same now as it was then.

quote:

Originally posted by Sixgun Symphony:
I don't see how it can be outdated. The instructions on how to cast bullets is the same now as it was then.

That's the whole problem.

Examples:

-- Lyman still uses Lyman #2 alloy even though the majority of casters use wheelweight.

-- Lyman still recommends using tin to improve fill out even though tin can actually hurt fill out in some situations.

IIRC, Lyman #2 alloy is 90%-5%-5%, and wheelweights are 95%-4.5%-0.5%. How much difference really is there? I have used both, and see no real difference in as-cast diameters, mould fill out or performance. The only thing I DO see is that typically the Lyman #2 alloy casts a more attractive bullet, i.e. a bit shinier and more appealing to the eye. For my money, go with the wheelweights and buy more components with the money you save by not buying the sticks of 50-50 solder. That is what I do...

The difference is that wheelweight is cheaper, denser, less prone to heat shrink, can be annealed to 8 BHN or hardened to 32 BHN, and requires a different casting technique.

The practice of adding lots of tin dates back 100+ years when lead metallurgy was not well understood, which says something about Lyman.

I will point out that the newest lyman manual does not give any loads requiring any filler. The older manual had filler loads listed with specs. Lawyers have gotten to them I guess. Also I will point out that Handloader Mag Wolfe Publishing is offering a trio of it's cast bullet out of print compilation on CED rom for around $30. If I did not already own 2 of the three books offered I would buy it. JB

Wolfe Publishing has a nice dvd with their four books on bullet casting articles from the last couple decades. I find it very interesting.

Depending how far you want to get into it.
The Cast Bullet Association sells one and two year bundles of their news letters.
I found these compilations to be fascinating reading. Some of the people's techniques make anal retenives seem haphassard.
Lots of good ideas there.
Jim

My own opinions about the books I have read recently:

Lymans Cast Bullet Book: Worthwhile because it is cheap and commonly available. Mostly load data for Lyman cast bullets. Has some good articles about alloys, molds, and casting techniques.

Veral Smith's Cast Bullet Performance: A good read about cast bullet design and effects of those bullet designs (Alloy selection, hardness, killing power, selecting designs, fitting bullets to your guns, prepping your guns, etc.) Really does not talk much about the actual process of casting.

Magma Engineering's Commercial Bullet Casting Manual: Worthwhile. Talks primarily about alloys and the Casting process. About 1/2 of the book is about using Magma Engineering's professional bullet casting equipment. Doesn't discuss bullet or mold design.

Precision Shooting's Reloading Primer: Definately worthwhile. Has a small section on casting precision bullets that is excellent.

Beartooth Bullets Technical Guide: Primarily about barrel lapping, bullet selection, and choosing the right bullet for your gun. Not about casting.

Cast Bullets for the Black Powder Cartridge Rifle by Paul Matthews: Primarily concerned with several specific bullet molds for the 45-70 BPCR. Not really a book about casting.

Yup, Veral's book: 'Jacketed performance with cast bullets' is about the most informative I have read in the several years. Had a lot of fun experimenting with soft nose, hard base cast bullets in the .45 calibers. They can be most devistating. . . . .

the lyman and rcbs books are great for beginners but are somewhat outdated on some of there statements about alloying and fluxing ect. the two best are verals and the cast bullet association. With verals you have to weed though a little of his " i know more then anyone and my way is the best crap" but if you can its got some good info. Both of the later two books go into it a little more scientificaly then what is needed for the home caster but i guess any education is good education.The book im sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for is the one Rob Applegate is working on. If there was every anyone with more real world knowlege of casting i havent met him. Hes had some health and family problems that have put the book on the back burner for a while but he insures me that it will be out soon. There isnt a caster at any level that shouldnt buy and read that book when it comes out.

quote:

Originally posted by Lloyd Smale:
the lyman and rcbs books are great for beginners but are somewhat outdated on some of there statements about alloying and fluxing ect. the two best are verals and the cast bullet association. With verals you have to weed though a little of his " i know more then anyone and my way is the best crap" but if you can its got some good info. Both of the later two books go into it a little more scientificaly then what is needed for the home caster but i guess any education is good education.The book im sitting on the edge of my chair waiting for is the one Rob Applegate is working on. If there was every anyone with more real world knowlege of casting i havent met him. Hes had some health and family problems that have put the book on the back burner for a while but he insures me that it will be out soon. There isnt a caster at any level that shouldnt buy and read that book when it comes out.

Lloyd,

Have you said that bout Rob Applegate to the boys over on the Castboolit forum? Just wondered.

I dont know where a pamphlet becomes a book,but Verals "book" is certainly on the borderline. Weighing in at 131 small pages. As stated no spell checker nor proof reading time or effort was used. It contains no loading data. Yet it is priced at $25. Now that I have given it a flowery report I'll give purchase info.
Judy Smith
HCR 62 Box 145
Moyie Springs,Id 83845
The Standard Lyman Manual has information and data for both cast and jacketed. The Cast Manual is cast only,since I shoot both cast and jacketed,I consider the Standard as the better buy. Lyman is one of the few that lists pressure. It is cheaper that Veral's "book" and considering all the data they supply which had to cost a bunch in research,their book is too cheap or Verals overpriced big time. I like the Lyman Manual and it is what got me interested in casting. I do disagree with some of their stuff---for example one of their formulas for their #2 is so many pounds of wheel weights with so many pounds of this and that. How do you take an unknown--wheel weights arent the same--add a couple of exacts and come out with an exact? That was my thought when I first read it 41 years ago,so I started using straight wheel weights and haven't found anything that beats them.

While the Lyman books are good, up to a point, I do have very serious issues with their load data that shows pressures marked in C.U.P.
One example for comparison is for the very poplular 30-06. In the Lyman #44 manual, circa 1967, they show 51.5 gr. of IMR-4895 as the max load for the 150 gr. bullet. My copy of the 48th ed. Lyman manual, circa 2000 shows the EXACT same data. Way back before the 44th ed., I'd worked up to 49.0 gr. of IMR-4895 as a max load for my rifle, a J.C. Higgins M50 commercial Mauser. At 49.5, bolt lift was sticky. This was my pet deer load from roughly 1952 to about 1971 when I decided to go to a 180 gr. bullet for deer to lessen meat damage.
About a year ago, I was wondering what that old 49.0/4895 load was doing in the velocity department so I loaded up a box using the nominally same components as the original load.
So it was 49.0 gr. of IMR-4895, 150 gr. Sierra Pro-hunter, Winchester brass and primer. Blown primer and very stiff bolt lift. I broke the rest of the ammo down and yes, the powder charge was right on the money and no other apparent discrepicies. So, fighuring what the hell, I started loading from scratch from thet starting load and up to the 49.0 gr. load that had once worked so well. At 47.5 gr., bolt lift got sticky and at 48.0 gr. the bolt had to be knocked open with a piece of 2x4.
So what's wrong with this picture? OK. Maybe I should have started from scratch to begin with, but we're talking a load I used for over ten years prior to changing to the heavier bullet.
Why is it that I cannot get anywhere near that so-called max load of 51.5 gr. in any 30-06 that I have?
I have noticed that quite a few manuals show the same max load with IMR-4895 which leads me to believe that maybe they're not retesting this data as well. In Lyman's case, it appears that they have not retested that data for 41 years. I know testing is expensive, but come on now.
Sorry to get so far OT but I do feel it is relevant.
As far as books go, I don't have Veral's yet. I have all three editions of the Lyman manuals, the RCBS manual and the neat book by Joe Brennan that came with my membership in the Cast Bullet Assoc. I much prefer the explanation on heat treating bullets in the RCBS book as it breaks things down to keeping it simple.Besides, it has pictures. Seriously though, it does have a neat picture of a basket made from screening material that works very well. One word of advice though. Only do one layer of bullets at a time. I got in a bit of a hurry one time and stacked the bullets three deep. Ruined the whole batch. The temperature was close enough to the slump point that they pressed the lower bullets into the screen ruining those and was also hot enough that they too slumped somwwhat and were unsalvagable. That was a hard way to learn what not to do.
Nowadays, about the only bullets I heat treat are those used for serious target shooting.
Paul B.