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gas checks don't fit bullet bases
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I know we've discussed this before, but I'm going to buy a new mould and I have some questions.
I have a Lyman 311284-base is too big and GC's have to be expanded to fit.
Lee 44 swc-same as above
Lee 30 cal-GC's fit OK
I do my GC expanding with an approprite size ball bearing and hammer or press.
Is it common for the shank of a bullet to be too big for the GC and you have to expand the GC for it to seat properly? This seems bogus. I have varied my alloy and it doesn't help. I have tried both Lyman and Hornady GC's-no difference.
Do RCBS or SAECO moulds have this "problem"?
Why can't they cut a mould with a properly sized gas check shank?
 
Posts: 630 | Registered: 11 March 2001Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by Max503:
I know we've discussed this before, but I'm going to buy a new mould and I have some questions.
I have a Lyman 311284-base is too big and GC's have to be expanded to fit.
Lee 44 swc-same as above
Lee 30 cal-GC's fit OK
I do my GC expanding with an approprite size ball bearing and hammer or press.
Is it common for the shank of a bullet to be too big for the GC and you have to expand the GC for it to seat properly? This seems bogus. I have varied my alloy and it doesn't help. I have tried both Lyman and Hornady GC's-no difference.
Do RCBS or SAECO moulds have this "problem"?
Why can't they cut a mould with a properly sized gas check shank?

Biggest variable here is the checks themselves. You mighta noted Max I posted requesting some oversized checks myself. I've had as many as five lot numbers of checks where none of them were the same.

I think like any tooling setup-- variations do exit. I've had RCBS molds that were not only undersized at 3085 but the check shanks were running fairly small also. I assume this scenario due to sharpening the cutting cherry.

Ever think of trying some 8mm checks? You have to anneal to do a good job and use a Lyman type check seater to make it work. Running them into a Lee push first doesn't work. I also for maximum accuracy bump these 8mm's to flush removing the waviness otta the mounted check botton.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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So, in other words, it's a crap shoot when you buy a mould? I thought about measuring my present mould shank before ordering a new mould. Then when the new one comes in, if it doesn't have a measurably smaller shank-sending it back.
The thing is, with my 311284, the nose is too small for a tight fit on the lands and the shank is too big for the gas check.

[ 02-03-2003, 05:23: Message edited by: Max503 ]
 
Posts: 630 | Registered: 11 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Max you might try giving Lyman a call to explain your problem. They seem to be doing better of late with warranty items.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Max, Out of nine GC moulds I have two with oversize GC shanks-one Lyman and one custom Hoch. They both shoot good, the Lyman 311299 amazingly so, therefore I don't mind annealing and expanding GC. Just one more of the magic tricks required to perform to make some rifles shoot. If cast bullet shooting is a science, it must be closely related to astrology and alchemy! regards, curmudgeon
 
Posts: 99 | Location: Livermore, CA, USA | Registered: 22 December 2002Reply With Quote
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quote:
Originally posted by aladin:

Ever think of trying some 8mm checks? You have to anneal to do a good job and use a Lyman type check seater to make it work. Running them into a Lee push first doesn't work. I also for maximum accuracy bump these 8mm's to flush removing the waviness otta the mounted check botton.[/QB]

Aladin,

Would you explain a little more why and how running them through a Lee push does not work? I'm not doubting you, just searching for knowlege.
 
Posts: 1570 | Location: Base of the Blue Ridge | Registered: 04 November 2002Reply With Quote
<bigbelly>
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Get the Lee (I know,I do hate dealing with them)185gr gcrn designed for .303 british and 7.7 mm jap.also the 155-156gr sks style bullets from same,never had the g-c problem,but the 185gr nose very slightly engraves on chambering.they ALL seem to shoot extremely well for me.308 win-30-06 light bullets 10-13gr red dot,no fillers.185gr try some slower powders to get decent velocity with them,you may be surprised,they should still be under $20 each,I have all 3.if you want 10 or so of each send me a self-adressed stamped padded envelope and I`ll send them out,$2-3 in postage should cover 30 bullets,no I don`t work for dick lee,and don`t even get along with him,but I do feel like you might like to try these.if interested e-mail me and I`ll give you the adress.
bigbelly@i2k.com
 
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Sure Leftoverdj. The 8mm's are way oversized and require the sizing process to start at the rear of the dia and go towards the crimp. I've tried several with the 8mm's on 30 cal in the Lee and it's never worked. Base comes out crimpled and otta kilter.

Going in a die backwards..... is what it amounts to using the Lyman. A guy might be able to use the Lee die inserting the base first. I have a case made-- filled with lead and center bored to the dia of a nose punch stem. Set the bullet in the stem and run it in, but it'd require a face faced rod to tap out.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I had the same idea yrs back Bigbelly. But my 185 gr came with a 304/305 nose-bore ride dia which is way oversized for 30 cal.

Gas check shank worked fine with 30 cal checks BTW-- which seems odder now that I think of it.

Lee molds and products have alot of customers around these parts-- me too. But as I add up the mold Q's of my last ten-- fully five of them were too far otta spec to be of use for the intended caliber.

Lee does adjust these no problem. Some make excellent molds for another caliber, say 303 Brits from the 30's. And Lee's being so inexpensive lapping and altering them is very doable-- and often produces an excellent shooten mold.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Aladin,

I asked about the Lee sizer because I had a notion that might work. Lee makes a .314 diameter sizer as a stock item. Seems to me that could be used to swage annealed lubed 8mm gas checks into slightly oversized .30 cal GCs. You'd then seat them using a .309 sizer
 
Posts: 1570 | Location: Base of the Blue Ridge | Registered: 04 November 2002Reply With Quote
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Max...I've got a couple of moulds that give bullets with O/S shanks. I've been tinkering with a cure for this this winter and pass this on for what it's worth.

Most problems are caused by a small lip on the corner of the GC shank that prohibits the GC fron starting straight.

You can use a Lyman GC seater or a Lee push through and "gorilla" your way through but you still end up with some shaved lead.

Take a top punch with a rounded shape and chuck it in an electric drill and fire that boy up. Slightly touch the bullet to the rotating top punch and it will form a slight bevel on the shank which will allow the check to start straight and seat straight. You may have to try several top punches to find the angle you want.

Takes only a few minutes to do a hundred bullets and it's worked in every case for me.

Just don't get too carried away with the pressure on the bullet or you'll go too far. Normally, a touch is all you need./beagle
 
Posts: 234 | Location: Lexington, Ky,USA | Registered: 26 January 2001Reply With Quote
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Leftoverdj I doubt a .314 would work either. I have a .312+ die lapped and that won't seat them either.

I'd guestimate that check starts out around .335-.340 before crimping. It's actually sized-- almost swaged around the 30 cal shank. I wouldn't mess with it 'cept the bullet shoots very well, but alloying the front driver to .309 is some of the problem-- increasing dia over a thou adding lino.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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Thanks everyone.
Beagle, I'll give your suggestion a try. I've thought about chamfering the shank end of the bullet to get the GC to start straight.
I've considered the Lyman 311299-which I believe comes out of the mould a few thou larger than a standard 30 cal bullet. I want to be able to engrave the nose in the rifling-and seat the GC squarely.
Max
 
Posts: 630 | Registered: 11 March 2001Reply With Quote
<blackknight>
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Max503
The way I cured this problem was to make a punch that will flatten the slight concave shape of most gas checks at the same time it expands the rim. The punch was made by modifying a round pin punch of suitable diameter by cutting it off where it starts to taper to the punch end. Then chuck it up in the drill press and bring it down on a smooth file to rapidly bring it to rough dimension, then stone it to final fit as measured by your cast bullet gas shank. A round bolt of suitable size could be used instead of a punch. Make the size so the gas check will just rotate and the rim is flared just enough for smooth entry.

To use the gas check is placed on a flat surface (the anvil of your vice works well, and it is given a light tap. The gas check can then be flicked off into a suitable container marked for sized gas checks.

I have posted this method a couple times in the past and haven't had a response. If you are interested I will tell you the rest of the way to make a good flat base which is necessary for best accuracy. Bob
 
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Bob I for one am all ears on how your make your bases flush. I have some preferred methods too, but am always look'n to learn new tricks.
 
Posts: 1529 | Location: Central Wisconsin | Registered: 01 March 2001Reply With Quote
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I have a Lyman/ideal .44 210 grain SWC mold which has an oversized check shank and undersized front drive band. I'd send it back but it came in with a bunch of other stuff I'd bought used. I deal with it by cutting the GC shank portion off of a bullet, closing the bullet in the mold and then liberally spraying the exposed GC shank portion of the mold with Midway mold release spray. You need to quickly wipe the spray off the top of the mold blocks but leave it to set up in the GC portion of the cavity. makes the shank small enough to accept a check. YMMV BD
 
Posts: 163 | Location: Greenville, Maine | Registered: 25 December 2002Reply With Quote
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Blackknight,
I would be very interested in knowing how you flatten your bullet bases. That's something I don't as yet do.
Max
 
Posts: 630 | Registered: 11 March 2001Reply With Quote
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