I’m looking at buying one of the following and would appreciate advice from people with actual experience.

Leica 2.5 – 10 x 42 ER
Schmidt & Bender 2.5 – 10 x 40 Summit
Swarovski Z3 3 – 9 x 36

a crystal clear answer: the SWAROVSKI

I own the Lecia 2.5-10x42ER. All I can say is WOW. Now thats coming from someone who owns Zeiss and Swarovski. All have great glass.

From Varminter.com

Relative Scope Rankings

10 - Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory

9 - Kahles C - CL & CSX, Schmidt & Bender

8 - Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American, X.O.T.I.C., Zeiss Classic

7 - Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce, IOR Valdada

6 - Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest

5 - Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII

4 - Burris Black Diamond, Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Meopta, Pentax Lightseeker, Super Sniper, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam

3 - Bushnell Elite 3200, Leatherwood, Leupold VX-II, Millet, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Simmons Aetec, Vortex

2 - Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons, Swift

1 - Barska, BSA, Tasco

0 - ATN, Leapers, NcStar

quote:

Originally posted by Riaan:
I’m looking at buying one of the following and would appreciate advice from people with actual experience.

Leica 2.5 – 10 x 42 ER
Schmidt & Bender 2.5 – 10 x 40 Summit
Swarovski Z3 3 – 9 x 36

Having owned dozens of scopes including Leupold, Zeiss, Kahles, Swarovski and Schmidt and Bender, including the 3-9x36 Swarovski...I can tell you unequilovacally that the 3-9x36 Swarovski is not even close to being in the leaugue of the other two particular scopes mentioned above. In fact the eye box on the 3-9x36 Swarovski was so poor, (as if so often the case with undersized objectived "ultra-light" scopes), that it never even made onto the rifle I purchased it for...before I sold it...

JC

My own experience may not represent that of others, but here it is for whatever it might be worth...

I found that in buying scopes at that level, the optical performance difference between any two scopes of the same make and model may in actual fact be greater than the differences from other makes in similar models.

I ended up being a real pain in the arse to sellers of scopes. I would get out all the similar price scopes they had of a particular tube and lens size in the magnification I was looking for, and physically SEE how each compared with the others in real-time viewing.

Some objected, but I found it well worth my while. Even in the exact same make and model, taken brand new out of previously unopened boxes, image quality varies considerably between individual scopes.

I would tell objecting vendors the simple truth: "If you want me to pay you $1,500 and up for a scope (sometimes way up), I am going to have to look through it first. No lookee, no buyee."

Works for me. Anyone else can do whatever they feel satisfied with.

I totally agree, I sell these scopes, and wouldn't dream of letting a customer take a quality optic out of the store without first looking through it first. If you go to a store that won't do this, don't buy it there.
Semper Fi

Vortex optics has some very interesting high end glass that is worth checking out. Their Razor and Viper glass is really something for the value. Dollar for dollar, they are above the bar.
Semper Fi

quote:

Originally posted by 2drifters:
I totally agree, I sell these scopes, and wouldn't dream of letting a customer take a quality optic out of the store without first looking through it first. If you go to a store that won't do this, don't buy it there.
Semper Fi

Drifter..he is not talking about looking through "A" single display scope that he is thinking about buying in a particular make and model. He is talking about looking through, "several" of the boxed inventory scopes...In one specific make and model...In hopes of "cherry picking" one particular scope that he believes he can see with his naked eye as being of better quality than the rest of the scopes. This despite the fact that all of the scopes he is comparing are from the same manufacturer and are the same exact make and model.

Frankly, I personally believe that unless he is cleaning each and every lens on each and every scope that he is puling from every box, it is a waste of both his and the shops time. Even if he is doing that..still I believe it is waste of time. I wouldn't blame any shop for telling him no. Not every shop needs or wants that kind of business.

In the end of course that is up to the shop to decide…

JC

My thoughts on best scopes I ever owned--

Top tier:

S&B, Leica, Nightforce, US Optics

Next:

Swaro, Zeiss, Kahles, Jena, Docter

Then:

Burris, Leupold, Nikon, Bushnell

I am surprised to read the negative comments about the new Swarovski Z3 3-9x36. I assume the remarks apply equally to the 'old' 3-9x36 AV (or American) model.

I am interested in reading more about these problems as I am considering buying a Swarovski 3-9x36 as a back up scope.

I have two Swar 4 x 12 X 50 AV's. They are as bright a scope as I have although I do not have any Zeiss victory scopes to compare. I do have conquest and they are quite bright.
I bought the AV because of it's light weight. I have also heard they are not as robust as some others however mine are doing OK but not on heavy recoiling rifles.
You really need to compare the optics at dusk and dawn to notice the real differences.

quote:

Originally posted by Warrior:
From Varminter.com

Relative Scope Rankings

10 - Swarovski Z6, Zeiss Victory

9 - Kahles C - CL & CSX, Schmidt & Bender

8 - Kahles KX, U.S. Optics, Swarovski PH & American, X.O.T.I.C., Zeiss Classic

7 - Bushnell Elite 6500, Leupold VX-7, Nightforce, IOR Valdada

6 - Bushnell Elite 4200, Nikon Monarch & Monarch X, Zeiss Conquest

5 - Leupold Mark 4 VX III & VX-L, Nikon Monarch Gold & Titanium, Sightron SIII

4 - Burris Black Diamond, Signature Select XTR & Euro Diamond, Meopta, Pentax Lightseeker, Super Sniper, Trijicon Accupoint, Weaver Grand Slam

3 - Bushnell Elite 3200, Leatherwood, Leupold VX-II, Millet, Nikon Buckmaster, Sightron SI & SII, Simmons Aetec, Vortex

2 - Burris Fullfield II & Timberline, Leupold Rifleman & VX-I, Mueller, Nikon ProStaff, Simmons, Swift

1 - Barska, BSA, Tasco

0 - ATN, Leapers, NcStar

That looks like in order of price almost

Jarrod
Yep Sometimes you do get more when you pay more in optics. How much you really need is the question of course.

I have owned Schmidt & Bender and Swarovski and they both make fine scopes. I would expect the new Leicas to be just as good based on Leica's reputation alone.

But have you considered that these are three scopes of different power and objective sizes?

Exit pupil at top power setting would be:
Leica 2.5 – 10 x 42 ER: exit pupil = 4.2mm
Schmidt & Bender 2.5 – 10 x 40 Summit: exit pupil = 4.0mm
Swarovski Z3 3 – 9 x 36: exit pupil = 4.0mm

If optics are about equal and you want to get the most illumination, you might consider the Leica. If it is more important to get a slightly smaller scope that you can mount lower, then you might consider the Swarovski. For a 10 power scope in the middle size wise, then you might consider the Schmidt & Bender. I'm sure any of the three will be satisfactory as far as clarity, repeatability, durability, etc.

@grenadier: forget the Leicas - have You looked through them? Nothing better then their competitor, but a much higher price! The image is not that crystal clear then the Swarovski and the mechanics is very poor - take a Leupold better instead! and if it is recoil proof and stand the test of time must be showed first, so: my vote would be definetly for the Swarovski, which has the best image of all those 3 you mentioned - and the highest quality of craftmanship as well...

Add MARCH to the list. In my opinion they have surpassed the quality of the German premire league.

quote:

Originally posted by McFox:
Add MARCH to the list. In my opinion they have surpassed the quality of the German premire league.

I have read & heard only good things of these scopes== just have not owned or used one yet.