i realize this really isn't the proper forum for this topic but i figure it will get the most responses here and is of interest mainly to African DG hunters. my BIL went to buy some .375 H%H solid ammo for his upcoming elephant hunt and his local gunshop said that they were unable to source Barnes 300gr solids in loaded ammo. they showed him a letter from Barnes that according to some obscure BATF reg from 2012, solid bullets above .30( i think it was .30) are considered armor piercing and therefore can't be purchased( the same letter is available to read on the Barnes website). Barnes has applied for an exemption for their VorTX ammo line but have not heard back from the BATF. when i went to Custom Cartridges and Superior Ammo websites, they DO still seem to be selling .375 ammo loaded with Barnes FN solids( although who knows when their websites were last updated). is it really true that factory loaded heavy solids are now illegal?

Yes sir, even with my FFL, I can't order them. Superior Ammunition will load the CEB's for him though.

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i realize this really isn't the proper forum for this topic but i figure it will get the most responses here and is of interest mainly to African DG hunters. my BIL went to buy some .375 H%H solid ammo for his upcoming elephant hunt and his local gunshop said that they were unable to source Barnes 300gr solids in loaded ammo. they showed him a letter from Barnes that according to some obscure BATF reg from 2012, solid bullets above .30( i think it was .30) are considered armor piercing and therefore can't be purchased( the same letter is available to read on the Barnes website). Barnes has applied for an exemption for their VorTX ammo line but have not heard back from the BATF. when i went to Custom Cartridges and Superior Ammo websites, they DO still seem to be selling .375 ammo loaded with Barnes FN solids( although who knows when their websites were last updated). is it really true that factory loaded heavy solids are now illegal?

when I got the info today,I could not believe it,nor could I understand why this had not been highly discussed on AR,clearly could have been that I missed it...anyway my task is to get me some ammo for our trip, quickly.

According to the folks at Barnes when I talked with them at SCI this year-

The issue is that there exists the JD Jones handcannons is .375 JDJ.

The law states that a solid metal bullet that meets certain qualifications (I think they said penetrating a police bulletproof vest) from a handgun is considered a AP ("cop killer") bullet.

Handgun ammo and component AP bullets cannot be sold to the hoi polloi.

.375 H&H loaded ammo can be sold, as its not usable in any handguns that are commercially available.

Barnes is choosing to sell their solids in .375 only as the VorTX line. This is what they pushed to me when I asked them about it.

I think if you have the right licenses Barnes sells the bullets to a manufacturer- but their current crop is RN, not the RNFP, maybe Superior can get them.

quote:

Originally posted by JCOOK:

quote:

Originally posted by jdollar:
i realize this really isn't the proper forum for this topic but i figure it will get the most responses here and is of interest mainly to African DG hunters. my BIL went to buy some .375 H%H solid ammo for his upcoming elephant hunt and his local gunshop said that they were unable to source Barnes 300gr solids in loaded ammo. they showed him a letter from Barnes that according to some obscure BATF reg from 2012, solid bullets above .30( i think it was .30) are considered armor piercing and therefore can't be purchased( the same letter is available to read on the Barnes website). Barnes has applied for an exemption for their VorTX ammo line but have not heard back from the BATF. when i went to Custom Cartridges and Superior Ammo websites, they DO still seem to be selling .375 ammo loaded with Barnes FN solids( although who knows when their websites were last updated). is it really true that factory loaded heavy solids are now illegal?

when I got the info today,I could not believe it,nor could I understand why this had not been highly discussed on AR,clearly could have been that I missed it...anyway my task is to get me some ammo for our trip, quickly.

There are several threads from last year where this has been discussed in depth. It's been on the back burner a bit lately however and therefore easily missed. And yes, as stated, the issue is certain monometal solids regarding purity make up of the metal such as brass, that can be fired from pistols so not all calibers or monos are currently banned from Barnes. The copper monos are not affected due to the purity of the metal? I think I have that correct; someone more in the know can chime in and set that comment straight please as it's been awhile since I visited this topic. Many of the smaller calibers are on the list. If I remember correctly, .416, 474, and .510 are available, but not .411 and the .458 SOCOM bullets. There are others as well.

Actually, this is scary stuff from the BATFE in that it's highly possible they will come after other manufacturers of brass monos as well. Specifically, when I had my 500 re-regulated by JJ, I switched to the North Fork Solids as I wanted to get that work done with bullets less likely to be affected in the future. That's the primary reason I didn't have it done with the CEBs.

JCOOK, if you need brass solids for the .375 quickly, I'd suggest looking at CEB. Those should be readily available. Question is do you handload or do you need someone (factory) to do it for you?

Superior Ammo lists both the Barnes solids and the North Fork solids as being available in .375 loaded ammo on their website. i told my BIL to call them tomorrow and see if indeed they are both available. if only the NF, then buy it.

It's a pincer movement, slowly force everyone to use mono-metal bullets due to legislation that bans the use of lead in hunting bullets………… then prohibit the mono-metal bullets because they will penetrate body armour in the smaller calibers and function as metal piercing in the big bores.

Nah! They wouldn't be that nefarious would they?

I left my barnes solids in zim - they are a collectors item.


I was at the range shooting a gong a few days back.

This guy next to me has a 375 ruger single shot and some of these solids.

I tell him about the ban and he has collectibles. I get a round from him and shoot the gong.

At 125 yards the shoot which was a poor shoot hit the gong at the edge and took of a nice chip.

This gong is the same plate metal in armored humvees. Its cut with high pressure water and is solid. Regular 375 just bounce of it with slight indents.

The barnes solid is an amazing bullet

In a few weeks ( at paris airport headed to burkina) i will post a pictures of the gong and some video of shooting the solid thru trees in zim.

Mike

It's been like that for last three years
I still have about ten 375 H&H left
That are great bullets ( barness solids )
Killed all my elephants with it. Two of them side brain shots went right thru their whole skulls clean thru
Isn't this from Clinton era the thing about cop killer bullets?

My wholesalers don't even list Barnes Banded solids in their catalogs anymore.

Within the last 2 months I was able to order and receive loaded Barnes banded solids for my 500 NE

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
Within the last 2 months I was able to order and receive loaded Barnes banded solids for my 500 NE

I may be wrong,but it appears that 416,470,& 500 with solids are not subject to the current armor piercing classification and can be purchased at this time....wonder how long that will last.

quote:

Originally posted by JCOOK:

quote:

Originally posted by hunteratheart:
Within the last 2 months I was able to order and receive loaded Barnes banded solids for my 500 NE

I may be wrong,but it appears that 416,470,& 500 with solids are not subject to the current armor piercing classification and can be purchased at this time....wonder how long that will last.

Apparently so....

Twice in the past month I have purchased Barnes .500 NE factory ammo loaded with their banded solids.