Namibian Black Rhino

01 March 2014, 14:19

Zig Mackintosh

The Humane Society International and IFAW have launched a petition to ask that the US Fish and Wildlife Service deny a permit to import the black rhino trophy from the Dallas Safari Club auction.

http://www.ifaw.org/united-sta...hinos-trophy-hunters

http://action.hsi.org/ea-actio...ea.campaign.id=24844

01 March 2014, 16:23

retreever

The rhino will still be shot. Not much sense.

Mike

01 March 2014, 17:37

bwana cecil

quote:
The rhino will still be shot. Not much sense.

It's about emotions, not logic or sense.
If they can stop the importation it will in their minds at least be a small victory.

01 March 2014, 21:02

jwm

quote:
Originally posted by bwana cecil:
If they can stop the importation it will in their minds at least be a small victory.

Or, more accurately, it will at least be a victory in their small minds.

If they succeed, their spin doctors will manage to turn it into "a huge step forward for rhino conservation...which, of course, costs lots of money, so send us some of yours!"

01 March 2014, 22:21

ledvm

I have said this before but will say it again.

USF&W is under the Secretary of Interior who answers to the president.

Our government is very much in political flux...and they sway to meet the wants of the political supporters especially the big money base.

Many of those Anti-hunting orgs are in the hip pocket of the Democratic party...meaning they have a lot of power in the US with USF&W at the moment. Especially with Sally Jewel as Sec. of Int.

We American Hunters are going to have to be very politcally active when we have the chance to continue our hunting heritage.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
J. Lane Easter, DVM

A born Texan has instilled in his system a mind-set of no retreat or no surrender. I wish everyone the world over had the dominating spirit that motivates Texans.– Billy Clayton, Speaker of the Texas House

No state commands such fierce pride and loyalty. Lesser mortals are pitied for their misfortune in not being born in Texas.— Queen Elizabeth II on her visit to Texas in May, 1991.

01 March 2014, 23:03

twoseventy

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
I have said this before but will say it again.

USF&W is under the Secretary of Interior who answers to the president.

Our government is very much in political flux...and they sway to meet the wants of the political supporters especially the big money base.

Many of those Anti-hunting orgs are in the hip pocket of the Democratic party...meaning they have a lot of power in the US with USF&W at the moment. Especially with Sally Jewel as Sec. of Int.

We American Hunters are going to have to be very politcally active when we have the chance to continue our hunting heritage.

AMEN!

...I say that hunters go into Paradise when they die, and live in this world more joyfully than any other men.
-Edward, duke of York

". . . when a man has shot an elephant his life is full." ~John Alfred Jordan

"The budget should be balanced, the Treasury should be refilled, public debt should be reduced, the arrogance of officialdom should be tempered and controlled, and the assistance to foreign lands should be curtailed lest Rome become bankrupt. People must again learn to work, instead of living on public assistance." Cicero - 55 BC

"The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

Cogito ergo venor- KPete

“It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own self-interest. We address ourselves, not to their humanity but to their self-love, and never talk to them of our own necessities but of their advantages.”
― Adam Smith - “Wealth of Nations”

01 March 2014, 23:24

SteveGl

Does the USF&W's mandate allow for it to make determinations not based in science or economics and which, in this case, go against the science and economics of the issue, as well as against the laws and wishes of the Namibian government and peoples?

01 March 2014, 23:53

SteveGl

By the way, the IFAW petition can be edited. I just changed it to the following and submitted it. Feel free to edit it as you wish, and if you come up with a better version, post it here.

I am writing to urge you to issue the permit that would allow the winner of the Dallas Safari Club auction to import his black rhinoceros trophy from Namibia. This would set a wonderful precedent for this and every other species, endangered or not, whose future depends on the sustainable-use model of wildlife management.

The funds generated by this hunt are essential in the preservation and protection of the Black Rhino, and penalizing the hunter would not only impair the conservation efforts of the government and peoples of Namibia, it would reduce the long-term survival prospects for the Black Rhino.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has an opportunity to set an example to the world by not only allowing, but celebrating the import permit for this rare black rhino.

02 March 2014, 00:02

BaxterB

quote:
We American Hunters are going to have to be very politcally active when we have the chance to continue our hunting heritage.

I got in a pissing match with a guy who thought the only way to secure our hunting/gun rights for the long term was to buy more guns and ammo. Said it was a waste of time to fight it anywhere else. I told him that's why CT and NY are the way they are now, by politics and the courts. The number of guns in private hands did nothing to prevent it.

02 March 2014, 02:12

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by SteveGl:
Does the USF&W's mandate allow for it to make determinations not based in science or economics and which, in this case, go against the science and economics of the issue, as well as against the laws and wishes of the Namibian government and peoples?

I would ask: Do government agencies always follow their intended mandate (especially in current times)? I think numerous examples could be cited from recent times definitivly showing they don't.

02 March 2014, 03:08

Matt Graham

quote:
Originally posted by SteveGl:
By the way, the IFAW petition can be edited. I just changed it to the following and submitted it. Feel free to edit it as you wish, and if you come up with a better version, post it here.

I am writing to urge you to issue the permit that would allow the winner of the Dallas Safari Club auction to import his black rhinoceros trophy from Namibia. This would set a wonderful precedent for this and every other species, endangered or not, whose future depends on the sustainable-use model of wildlife management.

The funds generated by this hunt are essential in the preservation and protection of the Black Rhino, and penalizing the hunter would not only impair the conservation efforts of the government and peoples of Namibia, it would reduce the long-term survival prospects for the Black Rhino.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has an opportunity to set an example to the world by not only allowing, but celebrating the import permit for this rare black rhino.

Editing and submitting the petition - still only adds one more vote to the anti petition. No one will read each petition.... it will be counted as an anit 'vote'

02 March 2014, 04:05

SteveGl

quote:
Originally posted by Matt Graham:
quote:
Originally posted by SteveGl:
By the way, the IFAW petition can be edited. I just changed it to the following and submitted it. Feel free to edit it as you wish, and if you come up with a better version, post it here.

I am writing to urge you to issue the permit that would allow the winner of the Dallas Safari Club auction to import his black rhinoceros trophy from Namibia. This would set a wonderful precedent for this and every other species, endangered or not, whose future depends on the sustainable-use model of wildlife management.

The funds generated by this hunt are essential in the preservation and protection of the Black Rhino, and penalizing the hunter would not only impair the conservation efforts of the government and peoples of Namibia, it would reduce the long-term survival prospects for the Black Rhino.

The U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service has an opportunity to set an example to the world by not only allowing, but celebrating the import permit for this rare black rhino.
Editing and submitting the petition - still only adds one more vote to the anti petition. No one will read each petition.... it will be counted as an anit 'vote'

Maybe. I didn't think about that 'til after sending it; but I did change the subject line if that makes a difference.

Besides, I think the other issue is more significant; whether the USF&W can act in opposition to science, economics and the wishes and laws of other nations.

02 March 2014, 04:08

SteveGl

quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by SteveGl:
Does the USF&W's mandate allow for it to make determinations not based in science or economics and which, in this case, go against the science and economics of the issue, as well as against the laws and wishes of the Namibian government and peoples?

I would ask: Do government agencies always follow their intended mandate (especially in current times)? I think numerous examples could be cited from recent times definitivly showing they don't.

Yeah but that at least opens the door to a legal challenge. No? ... as was the case with the three amigos.

02 March 2014, 05:45

ledvm

quote:
Originally posted by SteveGl:
quote:
Originally posted by ledvm:
quote:
Originally posted by SteveGl:
Does the USF&W's mandate allow for it to make determinations not based in science or economics and which, in this case, go against the science and economics of the issue, as well as against the laws and wishes of the Namibian government and peoples?

I would ask: Do government agencies always follow their intended mandate (especially in current times)? I think numerous examples could be cited from recent times definitivly showing they don't.

Yeah but that at least opens the door to a legal challenge. No? ... as was the case with the three amigos.

While I NOT saying for us to QUIT challenging in court...I have been watching that scene for a while too and we are not making in-rows using the court system either.

It has go to won in the voting booth...hopefully a majority will wake up and smell the coffee.

02 March 2014, 08:51

fujotupu

quote:
USF&W is under the Secretary of Interior who answers to the president.

"As you make your bed, you lie in it" ... or, "you sow what you reap".

Make sure you all vote for the right President next time and while you are in the voting mood get the right Senators in place as well.

Too late to be bitching once the deed is done and y'all gave your man a second term of office as well regardless of his first-round performance.

That's politics I guess.

02 March 2014, 08:56

ledvm

Fujo,
I could not agree with you more except we reap what we sow.

02 March 2014, 09:45

delloro

quote:
Originally posted by bwana cecil:
quote:
The rhino will still be shot. Not much sense.

It's about emotions, not logic or sense.
If they can stop the importation it will in their minds at least be a small victory.

no sir, it is about incrementalism.

02 March 2014, 10:00

JPK

quote:
Originally posted by delloro:
quote:
Originally posted by bwana cecil:
quote:
The rhino will still be shot. Not much sense.

It's about emotions, not logic or sense.
If they can stop the importation it will in their minds at least be a small victory.

no sir, it is about incrementalism.

And about control and envy. Most of the far lefty fringe don't give a rat's a-- about the rhino, they just don't like someone else being able to do what he or she wishes. Same with gun control, same with taxing the crap the people in this country who work hard and supply the jobs and capital for the economy to grow - they just don't want others to have "it." You can define "it" a thousand ways, a diesel PU, a big SUV, a gun, a hunt.....

JPK