deleated

yes guy killed one with a 22 on a drunken bet so the 45 110 should get in there and get er done

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From the time that smokeless power came upon the scene, a .45 caliber rifle (.458 traditionally) projecting a bullet with a weight of 450 to 500 grains (that is, sectional density greater than .300) at a nominal velocity of 2150 f.p.s., and assuming a well constructed, non-expanding bullet-type, has been universally recognized as "elephant worthy".

If your .45/110 is in that ball park, I'd be the last to raise an eyebrow.

No problem with smokeless, but no way with black powder.

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quote:

Originally posted by pacecars:
This rifle will never see smokeless powder or jacketed
bullets

Then you are probably pretty iffy --

How about a 45/70

Since you are shooting a 110gr. might as well just shoot solids for ele and some premium softs for buf. North Forks or Cutting edge (CEB)



Mike

quote:

Originally posted by pacecars:
Would a Shiloh Sharps in. 45-410 be adequate for Elephant and Buffalo? It would be a hard cast 500 grain bullet.

quote:

Originally posted by Bill/Oregon:
No problem with smokeless, but no way with black powder.

quote:

Originally posted by pacecars:
This rifle will never see smokeless powder or jacketed
bullets

With the question asked and answered, the correct one word answer is “NO!” It is not up to elephant hunting!

Take a very strong Ruger No1 and barrel it to 450-110 and use a good 480 to 500 gr jacketed solid with a full power load of smokeless powder,reaching 2150 fps or more and you have an elephant rifle!

As far as elephant being killed with a 22 LR, IMO, that is an urban legend, and I doubt seriously that it ever happened!

Also IMO, if you can afford to hunt elephant, you should be able to afford to buy an elephant rifle!


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quote:

Originally posted by pacecars:
This rifle will never see smokeless powder or jacketed
bullets

I think you answered your own question.

To me, elephants are something different. Old and huge, they seem almost wise (except for eating themselves out of house and home). They deserve what works, not what might work. JMHO.

And a .404 Jeffery, particularly with modern loads, is, of course, a very good choice. Now, go get a 100 lb.'er.

Pacecars: I understand not wanting to put "condom bullets" or smokeless through a Sharps.
Find a copy of "Wild Beasts and Their Ways" by Samuel Baker. He goes into great detail about the loads he considered adequate after a lifetime spent pursuing dangerous game.
I think you will find a hardened 650-grain bullet and 150 grains of Curtis and Harvey diamond Grade No. 6 are about the minimum for elephant, out of a .577 3-inch BPE. Better still, an 8- or 10-bore double rifle.

quote:

Originally posted by JudgeG:

To me, elephants are something different. Old and huge, they seem almost wise (except for eating themselves out of house and home). The deserve what works, not what might work. JMHO.

Perfect!

I love my Shiloh Sharps Montana Roughrider,it is a 45-110,I have killed bison & elk with it,sure is a beautiful weapon very accurate,however when I shoot an elephant it will be with a DR in a proper caliber.

Almost made an elephant gun out of her[URL= ][IMG

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Details?

Not trying to stir the pot, BUT!! Whats the difference between 450NE 3 14/" BPE loads that have killed Ele and the 45-110 heavy black ?? WOuld seem to be the same??

Dave, that old .450 3 1/4 BPE was actually conceived as an express round for use on stag and other medium game. I don't think it was ever put to serious use on elephant, at least after the first attempt. Graham Wright shows these Kynoch ballistics circa 1902: 120 grains BP, 270-grain bullet at 1950 fps, and 120 grains, 365-grain bullet at 1750. For the .45-110, Venturino shows 90 grains FFg, 544-grain roundnose at 1373 from a Sharps.

I'd be interested in hearing what happened to the Marlin also...

I don't know what caused these blow ups, my guess STUPIDITY , here is another
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quote:

Originally posted by Colt Commander:
I'd be interested in hearing what happened to the Marlin also...

I'd be more interested in what happened to the shooter!
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A body shot with the .45-110 would probably work, but, like others have said, "why"?

The 'weak spot' on the Marlin 1895 is the fact that there is very little metal in the frame between the barrel threads and the magazine tube. When the guns are pushed to higher pressure than they can stand, this is where the gun breaks up. The 450 Marlin version changed the type of threading to increase the strength in this area. It was minimal strengthening. But the blow ups come from trying to make the gun something it is not--- a .458WM.
If I had to try and hot rod a 45/70 in a lever action. the browning BLR or Winchester 1886 is a better platform to do it on.
But I think there are many postings that show this is not a good idea.

hell, a lot of things will work in a perfect world. a better question is what will work consistently in an imperfect world- an a 45-110 isn't one of them.

Blackhorn 209 pretty much blurs the line between blackpowder and smokeless. increased velocities with equal weight charges(by volume). Not sure if it is or has been used in BPCR loads due to increased pressures.

I don't know whether this guy is just rattling the cage. Maybe so. I'm hoping for a Darwin moment.

What is appealing about a stunt like this? Using a less-than-perfect or obsolete gun/cartridge because it has some history in the field seems understandable...for example, taking a bison with a Sharps rifle. Surely a .45-110 has never been historically common as an elephant rifle, even back when it was state of the art? Why do it now? Not being argumentative, just curious.

why do it now? because periodically the gene pool needs a good dose of chlorine to weed out the "stupid" gene...

In his book Big Game Hunting, I believe it is, Elmer said he shot a Buffalo with a 45/110, real one. Hit it 3 times at least, before it finally went down. I took a Marlin 95 in 45/70 to Africa with me in 1972, and had the loads heated up (bad idea, bullets to soft and didn't work well). Was pushing the 405s at 1900 fps (since then, has been chronographed to show fps). Brian Pearce, who writes for Rifle and Handloader took one to Africa in 2003, and shot a couple of Cape Buff with it, using Cor-Bon ammo, and worked very well. Some reloading data now shows a load of 50grs 4198, behind a 400gr bullet, in the 95, and Ruger #1, for about the same velocity as the 400gr 450/400. Read somewhere recently, where someone took a 45/70 to Africa and used VERY hard case lead bullets, on DG, with good effect. I do believe though if I had an original Sharps in 45/100, would not want to put hi-pressure smokeless loads in it.