What Bullet for Use in Large Case 375 Caliber, on Buffalo and Sable?

13 September 2008, 10:10

Blair338/378

I'm hoping to hunt the Caprivi with Mike Kibble in 2010 and plan on using a 375 RUM for Buffalo and Sable.

I'm considering a heavy for caliber bullet. 350 PP Woodleigh possibly, at moderate velocity and pressure for the case etc.

What type and weight of bullet has anyone here on the AF used in this sort of case? That would include the AI/Wby cartridges of course.

I'm well aware that Saeed's 375/404 is a ballistic twin to the RUM. So, perhaps based on his experience a 300 TSX would be better?

13 September 2008, 10:44

Saeed

Stick with the time honoured 300 grain bullet.

Just make sure you use a bullet that will hold together.

Makes life much easier. And frankly, I would not consider any bullet that haas lead in it for my rifle, as long as I am able to get bullets like the Barnes, GS or similar.

13 September 2008, 11:06

Macifej

Are you going to shoot more leggy rats next trip or are ya gonna shoot some New York strip...and tusked pork chops? Get an adult caliber instead of the anemic Remington toys.

I'm teaching my 6 year old nephew to shoot with a 458 Win. Mag. He says it shoots pretty much like his Super Soaker except it's lighter...

13 September 2008, 11:08

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Stick with the time honoured 300 grain bullet.

Just make sure you use a bullet that will hold together.

Makes life much easier. And frankly, I would not consider any bullet that haas lead in it for my rifle, as long as I am able to get bullets like the Barnes, GS or similar.

Thanks Saeed.

Appreciate the advice seeing you have had so much experience with the caliber.

13 September 2008, 11:10

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by just-a-hunter:
A good friend of mine carried a .375 RUM last year in Africa. He killed a red duiker, crocodile, Roan, Tsesabi (or however you spell that) with it. He was using .300 grain A-Frames and the only bullet recovered was in the ass of the Roan as his shot was a frontal chest shot.

If that was my rifle, I would stuff a 300 grain A-Frame in it and call it good.

Good luck,

Todd

Edit: I also meant to add that the red duiker had two holes in it about the size of a U.S. quarter, entry and exit.

Thanks for the input Todd. The duiker mustn't have felt well

13 September 2008, 11:12

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
Are you going to shoot more leggy rats next trip or are ya gonna shoot some New York strip...and tusked pork chops? Get an adult caliber instead of the anemic Remington toys.

I'm teaching my 6 year old nephew to shoot with a 458 Win. Mag. He says it shoots pretty much like his Super Soaker except it's lighter...

If you decide to come along, bring your tripod mounted/wheeled canon and we can have some fun

13 September 2008, 11:14

Macifej

Don't think I can get it on the plane here Mate...may have to ship the ammo in advance. If not I'll bring some lowly .485" device...

13 September 2008, 11:18

Blair338/378

Think laterally, Mac!!!

Ship it in parts

Otherwise;

Bring a 666 Teufel or something crazy if I'm bringing the anaemic Remington toy

13 September 2008, 11:29

Macifej

quote:
Ship it in parts

Send it to Kibble in pieces with a torx wrench and no instructions..?? Thinking like an Aussie as usual.

13 September 2008, 11:35

Blair338/378

Kibble will put it together, he's loves working on stuff like that.

Include Ratesputz for when he becomes frustrated, might be wise though!

Now on a serious note; what bullet should I use in my anaemic Remington toy?

13 September 2008, 11:43

Macifej

quote:
Now on a serious note; what bullet should I use in my anaemic Remington toy?

Personally I'd use 250's and drive em faster. Brass FN's in 250 and whatever you like for the small stuff. Those Lapua jobbers seemed to perform very well. I'll have something more exotic for you to use in .375 before you go.

13 September 2008, 17:59

M 98

BLAIR
if North Fork are in production, i would just stick with them , 300gn @2700 will just hammer the buffulo and anything else
i disagree with Saeed about the momo proj, he must be selectivly not reading all the erratic results with the expanding mono proj
have you forgotten your results with your tsx/300ultra :
Daniel

13 September 2008, 18:13

tradewinds

300 TSX

13 September 2008, 18:49

zimbabwe

I have only shot one buffalo and one sable. The buffalo was a one shot kill with a 375H&H and a 300gr Woodleigh handload not even loaded to book max. The Buff reared up on it's hind legs and went over completely on it's back and was dead. The sable was taken at about 100yds with a 30-06 with 220gr Nosler Partitions and dropped after walking in a circle a couple of times. Have no idea anything more powerful is needed with either caliber if the shot is well placed. Dead is dead.

13 September 2008, 20:20

jorge

quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Stick with the time honoured 300 grain bullet.

Forget that heavy stuff. Given a GOOD bullet, SPEED is what you want, in my opinion anyway. 300 gr Swift or TSX. jorge

13 September 2008, 20:43

Blair338/378

Thanks guys.

Especially you Daniel. Good point there, you made.

13 September 2008, 20:46

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Macifej:
quote:
Now on a serious note; what bullet should I use in my anaemic Remington toy?

Personally I'd use 250's and drive em faster. Brass FN's in 250 and whatever you like for the small stuff. Those Lapua jobbers seemed to perform very well. I'll have something more exotic for you to use in .375 before you go.

The Naturalis's are not made in 375, I'd have no hesitation in taking them if they were.

Look forward to the new project Mac.

Thanks mate, once again.

13 September 2008, 20:47

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by jorge:
quote:
Originally posted by Saeed:
Stick with the time honoured 300 grain bullet.

Forget that heavy stuff. Given a GOOD bullet, SPEED is what you want, in my opinion anyway. 300 gr Swift or TSX. jorge

Thanks jorge.

13 September 2008, 22:12

Bwana Nderobo

Blair- I used the 300 gr. A-Frame in the 375H&H in RSA on Steinbock, warthog, impala, gemsbock, springbock, ostrich and eland- at ranges from 45 to 375 yards. Shot an american bison @ 90 yds with no problems. Flawless performance, also use them in my 416 Rem. Never a bullet problem. If they shoot in your gun they will kill anything you point them at!! Safari njema!

Phil Massaro
President, Massaro Ballistic Laboratories, LLC
NRA Life Member
B&C Member
www.mblammo.com

Hunt Reports- Zambia 2011
http://forums.accuratereloadin...6321043/m/1481089261

"Two kinds of people in this world, those of us with loaded guns, and those of us who dig. You dig."

14 September 2008, 00:16

jetdrvr

There are no flies on the Swift A Frame, regardless of what Saeed says.

14 September 2008, 00:19

Saeed

The only times I used the Swift A-Frames - in a 7.21 Lazzeroni - the bullets fell apart, even the lead in the rear end was lost.

They cannot be compared to mono bullets as far as I am concerned.

14 September 2008, 00:30

jetdrvr

That's the only time I ever heard of a thing like that.

I don't have you experience, but I've killed twelve or thirteen animals with the A Frame in various weights, from 160 to 300 grain, and they all held together. I shot a buff with one that passed through one shoulder, heart, lungs, both ribcages and weighed 292 grains when recovered. Can't beat that.

14 September 2008, 05:33

N E 450 No2

If I was using a .375 cartridge with higher velocity than the 375 H&H I would use a premium bullet that was designed not to fail, ie it is not physically possible for the bullet to totally fragment into small pieces.

Such bullets are [not listed as to any personal preference]: Barnes X, North Fork, Trophy Bonded Bearclaw, Swift A Frame, & the Nosler Partition. I may have left one or two out.

14 September 2008, 08:46

Andy

Blair,

I have killed many hundreds of american bison with high velocity 375.

A lead core bonded kills much faster than a monometal blow off the front end Barnes X style that Saeed favors.

Saeeds formula works.

But a good bonded core works alot better.

Andy

14 September 2008, 09:27

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Andy:
Blair,

I have killed many hundreds of american bison with high velocity 375.

A lead core bonded kills much faster than a monometal blow off the front end Barnes X style that Saeed favors.

Saeeds formula works.

But a good bonded core works alot better.

Andy

Andy,

That's a bloody interesting point you made.

Would you care to elaborate?(I'm not taking the piss, just would like to hear all sides, as I've never shot Buffalo.....or Bison for that matter).

Saeed has us all in a corner, when it comes to number of animals shot........but please give me your opinion.

14 September 2008, 09:28

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
If I was using a .375 cartridge with higher velocity than the 375 H&H I would use a premium bullet that was designed not to fail, ie it is not physically possible for the bullet to totally fragment into small pieces.

Such bullets are [not listed as to any personal preference]: Barnes X, North Fork, Trophy Bonded Bearclaw, Swift A Frame, & the Nosler Partition. I may have left one or two out.

Thanks N. E 450.

14 September 2008, 10:13

Saeed

Hunting in Africa, penetration overides any other quality the bullet might have.

Imagine yourself on a hunt, and the only shot you might get an an animal you have been following all day is up his rear end.

With a bullet that you know penetrates well, you will have no hesitation in taking the shot.

I have seen the real experts on some other hunting sites that swear they would NEVER take a shot at the rear end of animal.

It is not very sporting, you know!

Those are probaly the same individuals who would drive to a feeder, sit in their trucks a few yards away with a beer in hand, and shoot the deer that they have been feeding.

My choice of bullet for Africa would be as follows:

First choice would be those made of pure copper, like the Barnes X and others.

Second choice would be those that have a solid rear shank. Like the Bear Claws and Jensen bullets.

Third choice would be the partitions, like the Swift A-Frame and Noslers.

14 September 2008, 11:04

N E 450 No2

Saeed

Have you shot any animals with the Jensen Lost River Ballistics bullets?

I have some factory loaded 375 H&H [HSM Brand] ammo with 300gr and 225 LRB J-36 bullets.

I have not hunted with it yet.

14 September 2008, 11:46

Shona

I'm with Saeed, I use only Barnes TSX in all my rifles and the 300gr TSX should be fine for what you are planning on doing. If there is however a cat on your wish-list then consider something that brake up more quicker, Swift A-Frame would be a better choice for this.
Good luck with the preparation of your trip.

14 September 2008, 14:19

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by N E 450 No2:
Saeed

Have you shot any animals with the Jensen Lost River Ballistics bullets?

I have some factory loaded 375 H&H [HSM Brand] ammo with 300gr and 225 LRB J-36 bullets.

I have not hunted with it yet.

I have shot an eland bull, at over 500 yards, with 150 grain Jensen bullets in a wildcat we made. A 270/404 Short.

I am not sure what model they are, but, they have a lead in the front part of the bullet, and a plastic tip like the Nosler Ballistic Tips.

The rear of the bullet is solid coper, like the Bear Claws.

The eland was hit in the shoulder, both bullets were less than 6 inches apart. One went straight through, and the other broke one shoulder and was found under the skin on the other side.

I have shot several lions, and two leopards with the Barnes X. None went more than 10 yards.

14 September 2008, 18:58

M 98

ANDY
you hit the nail on the head, and i agreee with you 100%, however now with the new generation of expading momo s ie BARNES TTSX/NOSLER E TIPS, the expansion on impact will be a lot more positive, and it will be real intresting to see what reports start comming in from hunters useing the new generation expanding mono proj...i think the reports of the mono s not expanding will stop due to the massive hollow point behind the plastic tip, however at long range/when velocity has dropped off lead core proj will continue to be far more effective , as lead is softer than copper , and will always expand more violentley

i know for one that its virtually impossible to shear off the petals of the nosler e tips
Daniel

14 September 2008, 21:18

Andy

Blair,

Our host Saeed is one of the most experienced buffalo hunters in the world.

His ranking of bullets for use on buffalo is certainly sound.

I just wish he wold try a North Fork or Bitterroot bonded soft point on a run-away buffalo.

I know of hunters who have done so with 250 and 275 grain 375 Bitterroot at 2950 fps (regular and improved case) with happy ending.

My experience w bison has not been hunting, just butchering them. Its hard to believe but a spine shot at point blank range w a .300 Weatherby will not kill them w one shot. (They lie down but are still alive).

A high velocity bonded .375 will kill w one shot to spine, heart, or lung.

And by kill I mean there is brain death as soon as you walk up to them.

Most impressive is lung shot that should not kill them so quickly.

That is probably the big difference between a low expansion bullet and a good bonded one.

Saeed has pretty well put to rest the argument about a high velocity 375 for buffalo.

I love that!

Andy

14 September 2008, 23:16

Marty

I vote for the Barnes TSX. They shoot way better in my 375 RUM than the A-frames, and performance on game up to and including buff has been outstanding. You'll appreciate the accuracy if you shoot your sable at 200 yards, or if you contemplate, say, a croc with the same gun. At that point, you have a remarkably versatile one gun battery. With a lot of blast and recoil.

15 September 2008, 00:03

N E 450 No2

Thanks Saeed.

The J-36 bullets I have are different.

They are totally solid , no lead, but they do have a "tip" but it is metal as well.

I shot them into a test box with the media used by a bullet company.

They did not expand much and did not penetrate in a straight line.

15 September 2008, 11:23

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Marty:
I vote for the Barnes TSX. They shoot way better in my 375 RUM than the A-frames, and performance on game up to and including buff has been outstanding. You'll appreciate the accuracy if you shoot your sable at 200 yards, or if you contemplate, say, a croc with the same gun. At that point, you have a remarkably versatile one gun battery. With a lot of blast and recoil.

Thanks guys once again for all the posts

15 September 2008, 11:30

Blair338/378

quote:
Originally posted by Andy:
Blair,

Our host Saeed is one of the most experienced buffalo hunters in the world.

His ranking of bullets for use on buffalo is certainly sound.

I just wish he wold try a North Fork or Bitterroot bonded soft point on a run-away buffalo.

I know of hunters who have done so with 250 and 275 grain 375 Bitterroot at 2950 fps (regular and improved case) with happy ending.

My experience w bison has not been hunting, just butchering them. Its hard to believe but a spine shot at point blank range w a .300 Weatherby will not kill them w one shot. (They lie down but are still alive).

A high velocity bonded .375 will kill w one shot to spine, heart, or lung.

And by kill I mean there is brain death as soon as you walk up to them.

Most impressive is lung shot that should not kill them so quickly.

That is probably the big difference between a low expansion bullet and a good bonded one.

Saeed has pretty well put to rest the argument about a high velocity 375 for buffalo.

I love that!

Andy

Good info, Andy.

Thanks mate.

15 September 2008, 11:40

Macifej

quote:
Goon info, Andy.

I've never thought of Andy as a Goon but he does hang out in the BB forum a lot...

15 September 2008, 18:44

Blair338/378

I fixed my typo, Mac.................

You going to design a monometal expanding projectile better than the X or Gerard's or dare we say, Saeed's Walter Hog

Now that would be something!

15 September 2008, 19:48

LRH270

Here's a TBBC that dropped a Buffalo at 50 yards:

15 September 2008, 19:58

Atkinson

Well if you were confused when you posted your question, I'm betting you are now inasmuch as everyone offers you a different bullet! hammering

Your choice of the 350 gr. woodleigh is a great one if you use the PP as opposed to the softer RN..

Northfork will soon be out with the old line of bullets that Mike had and the old North Fork cup point is, IMO, the best buffalo bullet in any caliber from 9.3x62 on up..Thier softs are one of my favorites.

But the bottom line is there are a lot of bullets out there today that will work in your RUM, just be sure its a super premium. They are:

North Forks
GS Customs
Woodleighs
Barnes X
Swift
Noslers
The above are just for starters, there are more and you gotta give credit to todays bullet makers, they done went an dunnit up good!

It ain't like the old days I guarentee you that, I remember when bullet failure was the rule..