Re: Dipping and Packing, New Law

20 December 2004, 07:36

Mike Smith

Mike, As long as it can be done within the law, I have no problem with it. Loopholes are used by everyone especially those in power to obtain their goals. I have no problem using a loophole in the law to save someone money. My only argument is willfully violating the law. If you can find a way around it that is great.

20 December 2004, 07:44

JJHACK

Mike Smith, These kinds of holier then thou discussions always end up going no place.

Let me ask this of you, have you ever driven over the speed limit? If that is breaking the law too, then how does that play into your theory?

20 December 2004, 07:46

Balla Balla

Quote:

Peters point of two gun permits with one hunter not shooting anything may not add up. I'm not sure at what point that is checked in Zambia? I have not hunted in Zambia enough to know this detail. His concerns may be well founded.

JJHACK

As you rightly point out, each country has it's own hunting laws and operting regulations.

Regards the [rifle permit] applications in Zambia.

WE the outfitter has to apply to be on Police register each year as a hunting operator in order to apply for a rifle import export permit for our clients

Essentially we ( the outfitter ) can ONLY apply for the client rifle import export permit from the local POLICE authorities in Lusaka. The completed paper work is then forwarded as follows.

1) One copy to us the outfitter for presentation to the client upon arrival at the entry border

2) One copy remains with the Police on file

3) One copy goes to ZAWA ( Zambia Wildlife Authority ) whom run hunting in Zambia

Now although it might not happin OFTEN it is theoretically possible for ZAWA to cross referance the rifle permit with the National Park/Hunting forms which have been completed and signed by the hunter and the PH guiding the hunt.

In summary, the evidence is ALL on file at ZAWA headquarters so in theory it can be accessed to effect a [witchhunt] should ZAWA have a snitcher or supect an operator of bending the rules, and should it go to court you can guess on WHOSE side the judge will come down upon if there is a hung case !!!

People like Zambian whom frequent this forum will bear me out that it is an UPHILL battle to win a fight against ZAWA or any other government controlled body in Zamabia and MOST other AFRICAN countries. If in fact one did win a legal battle the costs to achieve that are astronomical, believe me we have had it occur and won.

It is a [very interesting subject] we are discussing and will enlighten a few non African residents in the trials and trivulations that operators do face to provide overseas hunters with the priviledge to hunt Africa

The ONE ASPECT we all need to be reminded of often is the LAW and LIFE in AFRICA is different to the rest of the WORLD so please for one moment dont try to believe that what is OK in the USA or any other place can be transposed to AFRICA.

People like [Ray Atkinson] will tell you even after 30 + years of beating the tracks and trails of Africa successfully he will from time to time end up going down a track that leads to trouble and strife in one form or another. As the old saying goes, Africa always wins in the end (-:

Regards, Peter

20 December 2004, 07:50

Mike Smith

JJ I am not holier than thou. I am just pointing out the negative side of this. HAve I broken the law? Yes. IS it wrong? Yes. Dont get yourself all bent out of shape. I said I wasnt tearing you or anyone else down. If you want to violate any laws go for it it is your choice. Why dont you take a class on ethics at your local university and see what kind of discussions come out of it. You seem to be a little testy about this. Why? I said if you can legally find a way around the law that was fine. My problem is with knowingly violating the law. It is not a theory it is law like it or not.

20 December 2004, 08:07

Saeed

Gentlemen,

We have always shipped our trophies as belonging to one person. And when we get them home we seperate them as to who has what.

Regarding this new law, it seems we as law abiding citizen are made to suffer yet again another law that will have absolutely no useful purpose except to antagonize and victimize the majority of hunters.

We seem to have all sorts of silly laws forced upons us - and I don't just mean the US, but all over the world - that are almost guaranteed to make many of us law breakers, just to be able to go through our daily lives.

I am almost certain that all ove us break one law or another - without probably realizing it - most of the days we spend outside our homes.

I had a long discussion with a friend from Africa about this, and the conclusion we came to was that as long as we are not - in our OWN view - committing any crimes, to hell with all the silly laws the politicians dream up, just because of some "special interest" group has asked for them.

20 December 2004, 08:24

jhrod

I may be wrong on this, and I'll have to check in with my outfitter. But it seems to me the way they were going to deal with it was to pack my stuff in a crate, and my buddy's stuff in a second crate. Then they would build a single crate around our two. This made it a single for purposes of shipping fees, yet separate for purposes of inspection in the US.