Capstick was a fraud.

15 January 2017, 18:09

Carlsen Highway

His first book was a collection of articles. Karamojo Safari was much better.
But I see you a big bore fan. So your opinion of him is understandable, as was his opinion of big bore fans.

___________

Ok, I have read this thread more than once over the years, and there have been others as well I think, and finally, I really have to ask:

Why do people think he was a fraud? Which bits is he supposed to have embellished? I don't really get all the accusations, whichout any specifics.

I don't even see what the catalyst has been for someone to start a thread and entitle it "Capstick was a Fraud". What made someone bother themselves with enough concern to start a discussion based on that premise, as if there was a discussion there. Nobody has started a thread about JA Hunter saying he was a fraud. Noone has started a thread about Walter Bell saying he was a fraud, and expected there to be something worth talking about.

I don't even get the disdainful wave of the hand, with the comment, he was a good writer, but you know, writers embellish...

Which bit did he embellish? Which bit stands as being fiction?

I understand that he wrote colourfully, that he wrote vividly, that he made animal encounters dramatic. But this is not fraud. This is not embellishing.
You guys make it sound like he invented incidents, and passed off fiction as real events, but no one has said which chapter. Which event?

I have read most of his books. I have read Death in the Long Grass, his other ones on African hunting history, on historical hunting figures, and collected articles.

I see a magazine writer who often told stories of other peoples hunts as well as his own. But whats the big deal with that? Reporters do it every day.
Where is the fraud supposed to lie?

I mean, someone needs to be more specific for me to understand what going on here, there's twelve pages of it here and no one has mentioned which bit is at issue.

I can hear an accomplished writer with a grand turn of phrase telling a story, but the fictions I can't hear in it, if you guys can.

Which is the bit that this trial is all about?

15 January 2017, 18:15

Heym 450/400

quote:
Why do people think he was a fraud? Which bits is he supposed to have embellished? I don't really get all the accusations, whichout any specifics

They went to Africa and their PH told them that he knew another PH that had apprenticed under another PH that had a client in camp and that clients cousins hunted with a PH that hunted with Capstick and he knows for sure that Capstick was a fraud.

15 January 2017, 18:17

Carlsen Highway

quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
quote:
Why do people think he was a fraud? Which bits is he supposed to have embellished? I don't really get all the accusations, whichout any specifics

They went to Africa and their PH told them that he knew another PH that had apprenticed under another PH that had a client in camp and that clients cousins hunted with a PH that hunted with Capstick and he knows for sure that Capstick was a fraud.

...who once got a lift from a taxi driver who told him..

15 January 2017, 22:10

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by Carlsen Highway:
His first book was a collection of articles. Karamojo Safari was much better.
But I see you a big bore fan. So your opinion of him is understandable, as was his opinion of big bore fans.

___________

Ok, I have read this thread more than once over the years, and there have been others as well I think, and finally, I really have to ask:

Why do people think he was a fraud? Which bits is he supposed to have embellished? I don't really get all the accusations, whichout any specifics.

I don't even see what the catalyst has been for someone to start a thread and entitle it "Capstick was a Fraud". What made someone bother themselves with enough concern to start a discussion based on that premise, as if there was a discussion there. Nobody has started a thread about JA Hunter saying he was a fraud. Noone has started a thread about Walter Bell saying he was a fraud, and expected there to be something worth talking about.

I don't even get the disdainful wave of the hand, with the comment, he was a good writer, but you know, writers embellish...

Which bit did he embellish? Which bit stands as being fiction?

I understand that he wrote colourfully, that he wrote vividly, that he made animal encounters dramatic. But this is not fraud. This is not embellishing.
You guys make it sound like he invented incidents, and passed off fiction as real events, but no one has said which chapter. Which event?

I have read most of his books. I have read Death in the Long Grass, his other ones on African hunting history, on historical hunting figures, and collected articles.

I see a magazine writer who often told stories of other peoples hunts as well as his own. But whats the big deal with that? Reporters do it every day.
Where is the fraud supposed to lie?

I mean, someone needs to be more specific for me to understand what going on here, there's twelve pages of it here and no one has mentioned which bit is at issue.

I can hear an accomplished writer with a grand turn of phrase telling a story, but the fictions I can't hear in it, if you guys can.

Which is the bit that this trial is all about?

It's certainly no trial. But heck, I'll take a swing at it.

I think the truth about PHC is that he may have had a license? maybe? but likely did just a few hunts. Otherwise there would be some number of trophy photos with clients, somewhere.

His statement that he had "Followed up on 9 wounded lions and didn't want to make it 10" is suspect, on its face. I would guess there are PH's here on AR that have had long careers that haven't done that much crawling around in the dark looking for a tawny blur.

That said, PHC is somehow endeared to all of us in one way or another.

15 January 2017, 23:21

Crazyhorseconsulting

On an Audio Tape I had that Capstick made with the Sportsman on film group, and I cannot remember their names, he talked about where he got his license as a PH.

16 January 2017, 05:20

MacD37

quote:
Originally posted by Heym 450/400:
quote:
Why do people think he was a fraud? Which bits is he supposed to have embellished? I don't really get all the accusations, whichout any specifics

They went to Africa and their PH told them that he knew another PH that had apprenticed under another PH that had a client in camp and that clients cousins hunted with a PH that hunted with Capstick and he knows for sure that Capstick was a fraud.

That about identifies the jist of this
subject!
....................................................................

16 January 2017, 06:14

Crazyhorseconsulting

Good One Sir.

06 February 2017, 20:25

Cigar

It just doesn't matter if PHC was a great as his books had us believe.. He is dead.. What really matters is PHC gave a lot of us a passion for Africa Hunting.. In my book if you give someone a passion for something you have given them a gift..

06 February 2017, 20:37

scruffy

On my first safari long ago in 1977 I had just read 'Death in the Long Grass 'and was telling my PH about the famous PHC... The long time PH told me that he had never ever heard of the famous guy. ??? But he is famous, I muttered. He said so himself ...

Later I was to find out that he had worked as a bartender and had picked up some of the stories and placed himself into the adventures ... and the little bit of work that he got as a PH did not end well because of his lack of expertise in judging trophies for the clients ..

Personally I really do not care what he did or did not do ... Come to think of it ... maybe I do. I always believe folks until I catch them making stuff up and then I never believe them again .. Go do exciting things so that you do not have to be a Walter Mitty type ...

06 February 2017, 22:02

Cigar

Or a passion for hunting in general.. There have been meny of times I have been that guy in a Maryland Duck Blind...

15 July 2017, 06:06

SquirrelNut

I've read his books, they're a good read.

I found this on another forum. This guy claims to have worked for the same outfit at the same time as Capstick. Interesting perspective.

Re: Peter Hathaway Capstick [Re: atkinsonhunting]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,339
Were you there when we had to go find him in the middle of the night because he got lost.?
Were you there when we found his high-centered Land Rover that the elephants never touched?
Were you there when we loaned him our best tracker and the first thing he did was load the little guy down with a bandolier of 75 .375 cartridges that he had to carry every day?
Were you there when they moved him out of his area because his clients had wounded thirteen lions and he wouldn't follow any of them up?
Don't get me started.

He was a good storyteller, however.

Re: Peter Hathaway Capstick [Re: atkinsonhunting]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,339
I am out of town and have very slow dial-up. I will address this matter when I get back unless I have a lot of time on my hands.

Ray
It's clear you could be hit in the face with the truth and still believe what you want. It's not frivolous if what he presented as fact was in fact substantially fiction, insofar as Death in the Long Grass was concerned. Paul Harvey might call it the rest of the story, rather than just calling it gossip because you don't care. Since you weren't there, you should consider keeping your uninformed opinions to yourself.

Hatari
I hunted with Luangwa Safaris which was Capstick's first job in Africa. Other PHs around were Tony Sanchez, Joe Joubert and Paul Nielsen.

I have no interest in recounting the whole thing, but may eventually. I'm going to have to look at the book again to refresh my memory of what Capstick said. What got my dander up is someone implying I don't know what I'm talking about when in fact I was in the middle of the events which occurred. Someone else can decide about Capstick's later reputation. I'm just talking about what I know and if someone is interested in the basis for his first book, well, that's what is called background.

This post from Allen Day was on the same thread.

Re: Peter Hathaway Capstick [Re: Timberline]
allenday Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
Yamhill Co., OR
In 1995, when I first hunted in Tanzania, we had a Emmy Award winning video cameraman with us. He was hired him for the full season to film hunts, and as it turns out, this man was also one of the video photographers who filmed Peter Capstick's African hunting series of videos.

In a nutshell, he told me, under no uncertain terms, that Capstick was a physical wreck and a chronic alcoholic who had the DTs so bad that they had to prop him up with beer or two at the start of every morning, and that Capstick fumbled around in the bush, and did not demonstrate anything that would even remotely demonstrate familiarity, expertise or competence.

AD

15 July 2017, 06:14

Steve Ahrenberg

quote:
Originally posted by SquirrelNut:
I've read his books, they're a good read.

I found this on another forum. This guy claims to have worked for the same outfit at the same time as Capstick. Interesting perspective.

Re: Peter Hathaway Capstick [Re: atkinsonhunting]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,339
Were you there when we had to go find him in the middle of the night because he got lost.?
Were you there when we found his high-centered Land Rover that the elephants never touched?
Were you there when we loaned him our best tracker and the first thing he did was load the little guy down with a bandolier of 75 .375 cartridges that he had to carry every day?
Were you there when they moved him out of his area because his clients had wounded thirteen lions and he wouldn't follow any of them up?
Don't get me started.

He was a good storyteller, however.

Re: Peter Hathaway Capstick [Re: atkinsonhunting]
toltecgriz Offline
Campfire Kahuna

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 18,339
I am out of town and have very slow dial-up. I will address this matter when I get back unless I have a lot of time on my hands.

Ray
It's clear you could be hit in the face with the truth and still believe what you want. It's not frivolous if what he presented as fact was in fact substantially fiction, insofar as Death in the Long Grass was concerned. Paul Harvey might call it the rest of the story, rather than just calling it gossip because you don't care. Since you weren't there, you should consider keeping your uninformed opinions to yourself.

Hatari
I hunted with Luangwa Safaris which was Capstick's first job in Africa. Other PHs around were Tony Sanchez, Joe Joubert and Paul Nielsen.

I have no interest in recounting the whole thing, but may eventually. I'm going to have to look at the book again to refresh my memory of what Capstick said. What got my dander up is someone implying I don't know what I'm talking about when in fact I was in the middle of the events which occurred. Someone else can decide about Capstick's later reputation. I'm just talking about what I know and if someone is interested in the basis for his first book, well, that's what is called background.

This post from Allen Day was on the same thread.

Re: Peter Hathaway Capstick [Re: Timberline]
allenday Offline
Campfire Guide

Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 3,052
Yamhill Co., OR
In 1995, when I first hunted in Tanzania, we had a Emmy Award winning video cameraman with us. He was hired him for the full season to film hunts, and as it turns out, this man was also one of the video photographers who filmed Peter Capstick's African hunting series of videos.

In a nutshell, he told me, under no uncertain terms, that Capstick was a physical wreck and a chronic alcoholic who had the DTs so bad that they had to prop him up with beer or two at the start of every morning, and that Capstick fumbled around in the bush, and did not demonstrate anything that would even remotely demonstrate familiarity, expertise or competence.

AD

I think one of my personal favorite yarns that PHC spun was the one about wearing a leather watch jacket or something with linoleum riveted to the neck or something. He then finished off his ensemble with a rugby helmet?

WTF, anyone believe that anyone would go after a wounded Leopard dressed in this garb?

15 July 2017, 08:04

Crazyhorseconsulting

Good Lord, the thread from Hell has resurfaced.

Capstick is dead, how many are still alive that actually knew or hunted with the man?????

15 July 2017, 08:42

fulvio

Capstick and other like him may well be dead but their BS lives on.

15 July 2017, 08:50

Crazyhorseconsulting

I am afraid a lot of us will be in that same boat.

15 July 2017, 10:47

Saeed

quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
Capstick and other like him may well be dead but their BS lives on.

There is no shortage of bullshit artists now either!

15 July 2017, 11:23

Jefffive

If a man has done me considerable harm I might periodically piss on his grave, if not I cannot imagine bothering.

15 July 2017, 11:24

RCG

A CHC said, "Good Lord". He may have been a BS artist supreme, but he fanned my African hunting fires. I first read his books while in college. After multiple trips to Zim and RSA, I now take his stories with a big grain of salt.

Regardless, he inspired many to hunt in Africa. I am one of his readers.

15 July 2017, 12:39

DCS Member

He made a living with a pen/typewriter. Many others make themselves heroes in their own mind here with a keyboard and internet connection.

He enjoyed life and did more than most.

15 July 2017, 18:16

fairgame

quote:
He made a living with a pen/typewriter.

Exactly.

15 July 2017, 19:14

Bwana Bunduki

In the end NONE of you were there.

You enjoyed his books.

He enjoyed his life.

Respect it.

Let it go.

15 July 2017, 19:16

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
In the end NONE of you were there.

You enjoyed his books.

He enjoyed his life.

Respect it.

Let it go.

Plus One.

15 July 2017, 22:10

larryshores

Does anyone have any idea of the volume of Capstick books sold?

15 July 2017, 22:17

MJines

Rumor is that he was a helluva a tipper in his time.

15 July 2017, 22:52

DCS Member

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rumor is that he was a helluva a tipper in his time.

Jajajaja

15 July 2017, 23:14

SquirrelNut

quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rumor is that he was a helluva a tipper in his time.

He must not have been an Indian living in New Zealand.

15 July 2017, 23:50

DCS Member

With that, I hope this thread dies.

Saludos, amigos.

15 July 2017, 23:51

DCS Member

quote:
Originally posted by SquirrelNut:
quote:
Originally posted by MJines:
Rumor is that he was a helluva a tipper in his time.

He must not have been an Indian living in New Zealand.

I meant to add that's funny as hell.

16 July 2017, 01:35

billrquimby

quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
Does anyone have any idea of the volume of Capstick books sold?

I have no idea on the exact number sold or how many editions his two publishers printed, but to remain in print for as long as the Capstick books have is quite an accomplishment in any genre, but especially for this limited market.

Bill Quimby

16 July 2017, 02:12

SquirrelNut

quote:
Originally posted by billrquimby:
quote:
Originally posted by larryshores:
Does anyone have any idea of the volume of Capstick books sold?

I have no idea on the exact number sold or how many editions his two publishers printed, but to remain in print for as long as the Capstick books have is quite an accomplishment in any genre, but especially for this limited market.

Bill Quimby

I liked "Death in the Long Grass", "Death in the Dark Continent", "Death in the Silent Places", and "Safari" but after those I thought his later stuff was terrible and boring. I would imagine the three "Death" books will remain in print for a long time, the later stuff not so much.

16 July 2017, 03:34

Crazyhorseconsulting

quote:
Rumor is that he was a helluva a tipper in his time.

That should be all that is necessary!

16 July 2017, 03:37

crane

Didn't any of you read "Death at the Tipping Phase"?

16 July 2017, 09:56

fulvio

quote:
but to remain in print for as long as the Capstick books have is quite an accomplishment in any genre, but especially for this limited market.

It is actually quite surprising to know that there are still many naive and gullible people out there on whom publishers continue to milk.

Adding spice to a story is one thing but some of the stuff thrown in is ... well .... a little too far-fetched.

BTW its not "pissing on anyone's grave" as there's quite a few such characters who are alive and well yet being pissed upon.

16 July 2017, 10:28

SquirrelNut

quote:
Originally posted by fulvio:
quote:
but to remain in print for as long as the Capstick books have is quite an accomplishment in any genre, but especially for this limited market.

It is actually quite surprising to know that there are still many naive and gullible people out there on whom publishers continue to milk.

Adding spice to a story is one thing but some of the stuff thrown in is ... well .... a little too far-fetched.

BTW its not "pissing on anyone's grave" as there's quite a few such characters who are alive and well yet being pissed upon.

I tried to re-read "Death in the Long Grass" a few months ago. I liked it when I was a kid but reading it now it comes off as ridiculous and the breathless, adjective laden, over the top writing style is hard to take. Stuff like firing both barrels of a .470 double into the loo to kill a mamba, shooting buffalo at night under a flare, following up wounded leopards while wearing a suit of linoleum armor and a football helmet, spearing wounded buffalo to death, etc is just absurd and I can't believe anyone above the age of 12 would believe that crap. I don't think it's "pissing on anyone's grave" to call bullshit on someone who turned peddling bullshit into a pretty good living.