Does anyone know if I can give a rifle to one of my South African friends that is visiting the states for the Shows.... I would of course be giving it to him to take home, He will be handling the import part in South Africa and is convinced he can take care of that with proper documentation of legal purchase in the US. I am not worried about the South African part, but the US part is what concerns me.

I have been searching all over the net and it "appears" that a tourist may purchase a firearm if he has a valid hunting license but I can't find anything concrete????????

This has been discussed before either on the African Hunting forum or Travel forum so you'll get the definitive answer by using the find function here on AR but I'm fairly sure you need an export licence & an end user certificate from the US & I'm sure you need an import licence for RSA.

I'm going from memory but am 99% sure the answer is no or at least, not without a fair bit of pre planning.

FWIW, I recently moved a couple of firearms from RSA to Portugal and the process was to get an end user certificate and export licence from RSA then use them to get the import licences for Portugal and only then could I move them...... and that move had to be done by courier rather than have them travelling with me as baggage and I'd expect the paperwork process to be fairly similar no matter which countries are involved because we're talking international law rather than national law.

Have you tried asking a gun shop in the US that has experience of exporting weapons to other countries?

These might be of help:

http://www.pmddtc.state.gov/re...tions_laws/itar.html

http://forums.accuratereloadin...801042701#9801042701

Thanks for the help.

But my situation is a bit different.........he is in the US.

I was wondereing if anyone new the legalities of giving or selling the gun to a non citizen IN the US????


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Your situation is not, in fact and law, different. A non-resident alien must get an export license for the State Dept. to be able to acquire a firearm here legally.

Do as Shakari suggests and check with someone like Champlins nearby.

Regards

I'd certainly recommend a great deal of research to be absolutely sure all the Is are dotted & Ts crossed beforehand because this post 9/11 world in which we live isn't going to be at all forgiving when it comes to moving firearms across international borders.

Not sure of the US implications,but the SA resident needs to apply for a permanent import license BEFORE he leaves SA.

He will need the serial numbers etc etc and they need to be processed onto the Data base.

Then when he comes into SA he goes to the firearms desk with the documents.

Tell good luck

I suggest you take caution in your actions.

How long have you had ownership of the firearm? You do not want to be involved with a straw purchase, unless you are prepared for an extensive stay in a federal facility. There are an abundance of pitfalls,none of which have good consequences for you.

The U.S. Dept of State and the BATFE are just two of the agencies having an interest in what you propose.

I was in exactly the same situation a few years ago when i was in the US.

I was required to get a specific export license before I could buy the gun and carry it with me in the plane. Too complicated and impossible in the short term.

I think the realistic time frame was 3 months IRC. This was for NZ where we can bring the gun in the flight and then apply for import permit after arrival!

You can be safe if you go to a notary and make a letter that states that you are no longer the owner of the gun, via a gift or transaction to the new owner, it has to have the copy of the id of the new owner and yours and the date, this will be somenthing that helps if somenthing happened with the gun in the future.

As I understand it, a U.S. citizen who gives or sells a firearm to an alien in this country (or anywhere else in the world) without going through a bunch of legal hoops will have committed a felony.

Bill Quimby

What you describe cannot be done in compliance with US law without an export license (or qualification on your part for a one time personal exemption) from the US State Department.

And before you can jump that hurdle, your South African friend would need to have previously obtained and provided to you an import license from RSA.

This can be done, but it takes a lot of time and paperwork. You have neither.

Best bet is to work through a US exporter.

There is an exception allowing a nonres alien to buy a rifle ... he must be here on a hunting trip and produce a hunting licence ... however he also has to prove residence in the relevant state for the prior 90 days ... and then as others have stated to export it (no matter who exports it) you need an export license from State ... and that is costly and takes time.

I'm from Canada and have imported several guns from the US. The US side require a lot of detail and paper work. I import from Leroy's Big Valley rod and Gun in new Glasgow Montana. The US permit takes about 6 to 12 weeks by itself. You nees to start the process well in advance.

Having brought a few guns into Canada from the U.S.....I can tell you it's a hell of a lot easier to get them into Canada than out of the U.S. I'd say what you are suggesting could only be done with the assistance of a broker and then the rifle would have to be shipped as non-resident aliens are not permitted to purchase and take possession of firearms or ammunition in the U.S.

quote:

Originally posted by JTEX:
Does anyone know if I can give a rifle to one of my South African friends that is visiting the states for the Shows.... I would of course be giving it to him to take home, He will be handling the import part in South Africa and is convinced he can take care of that with proper documentation of legal purchase in the US. I am not worried about the South African part, but the US part is what concerns me.

I have been searching all over the net and it "appears" that a tourist may purchase a firearm if he has a valid hunting license but I can't find anything concrete????????

This is how I did mine a couple years ago:
You need to apply for a "one-time" export permit of a non-military type rifle from the USA to South Africa. You need a letter from your fortunate friend, preferably on a letter head, stating what he will be doing with the rifle and why he needs it.

Then you buy a case of very good Scotch. Now you go to the State department concerned with exporting non-military type rifles and get the application form. Go home and open the first bottle. Complete the application form and return it by hand to the relevant official you spoke to in person if you are close enough to that official.

Go home and enjoy the second bottle. Call the official strictly as agreed: once a day, once a week or how many times.

Tell your friend about his good fortune and supply him with the details of the rifle: make, model, caliber, barrel serial number, receiver serial number and all words and lettering stamped on the barrel. This friend now has to go to our cops and get an application form for the import of a sport hunting rifle. Open the third bottle on his behalf.

He applies for the import permit and soon as he has that (6 - 18 months from date of application) he forwards you a certified copy of his import permit. Have another bottle before returning to your initial contact at the State department. Hand him / her the certified copy of the import permit issued by the SAPS.

Find someone coming to South Africa who would be willing to bring the rifle along and have your friend wait at the airport to meet his rifle in person.

Celebrate after almost 2 years of waiting by having a big party.

Pieter